12122015, 08:38 AM



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We do Kumon for reading and math since my kid is advanced and I need something to help move him along and Kumon is a very organized way to do that. However, we rarely go to the Kumon center and primarily just drop off completed work sheets and pick up new worksheets. Is there a way that I can just buy the Kumon worksheets only (perhaps at a discounted price relative to the worksheets + center price)? Anyone know or heard anything offered?

12122015, 12:41 PM



Location: SOLARIS
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This probably won't be considered helpful to you but I used to tutor and correct in kumon centers back in high school.
Like nana053 mentioned, kumon is downright "boring and rote."
I saw so many gifted children being forced into small boxes of thought processes, and if they excelled at it they were just given more small boxes to compute in.
Aside from the homework which no one can take seriously or be enthusiastic about, many students would come in, sit down and do their inclass work within 30 minutes, walk up to a correction officer (lol) turn their papers in, go back to their seat, and do corrections of their previous homework (man it hurts just typing this) all while being COMPLETELY SILENT. Nobody speaks the whole time.
The schooling produces calculating machines based upon repetition (the most basic form of mind control) and even the english department was such a joke that they were taught and supervised by inept adults and teens that thought being a grammar nazi was the endall of the subject.
And throughout my 4 years of working and many more years of being a halfassed student there, I can not mention once instance where a student nor parent questioned the system or anything along those lines.
The whole system's intention is to turn your youth into accepting robots that can't speak out. The sad part is the parents felt like they were doing god's work by paying $200 a month for this crap.

12122015, 02:12 PM



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cityduck
This probably won't be considered helpful to you but I used to tutor and correct in kumon centers back in high school.
Like nana053 mentioned, kumon is downright "boring and rote."
I saw so many gifted children being forced into small boxes of thought processes, and if they excelled at it they were just given more small boxes to compute in.
Aside from the homework which no one can take seriously or be enthusiastic about, many students would come in, sit down and do their inclass work within 30 minutes, walk up to a correction officer (lol) turn their papers in, go back to their seat, and do corrections of their previous homework (man it hurts just typing this) all while being COMPLETELY SILENT. Nobody speaks the whole time.
The schooling produces calculating machines based upon repetition (the most basic form of mind control) and even the english department was such a joke that they were taught and supervised by inept adults and teens that thought being a grammar nazi was the endall of the subject.
And throughout my 4 years of working and many more years of being a halfassed student there, I can not mention once instance where a student nor parent questioned the system or anything along those lines.
The whole system's intention is to turn your youth into accepting robots that can't speak out. The sad part is the parents felt like they were doing god's work by paying $200 a month for this crap.

I really don't know where you worked but I challenged it and my Kumon owner was responsive and modified the strategies and approach. We don't do all of the math bc I have an eng background and know 80 probs a night is not necessary. However, children need to be able to sit down and do math, period. I also like the reading. My kid was 2 when he started reading phonetically (having learned all letters and sounds when he was 1). After one year in Kumon, he is four and reads on a second or third grade level. It's systematic and steps the kids through and the reading is not boring. The center he goes to is buzzing with activity and ppl moving about. He finishes both subjects in 30 mins. I just don't have to time to drive over and wait and drive back twice a week, esp bc we'd rather be at a museum, Legoland, guitar or just enjoyong time as a family  worksheets can be done at anytime so I don't bother goinv. When I was a kid we did math hw everyday. It was not fancy, it was alot like Kumon in the 80s. Learning how to do math on a worksheet is not going to kill creativity. It sounds like your Kumon center was a sad place to be. Too bad for those children.
ETA: I also don't agree with needing 100 percent right so that correction stuff is kind of weird to me. To me, check your own work like we did long ago and if you don't understand,gret help. I also don't do the tricks with adding. I don't send him to learn tricks. I send him to understand math so we don't do the tricks. I have no desire to produce a calculating machine. So we don't abide by all the rules. I use my brain and go by what I think is best for my child. If they want my money, they will listen. Otherwise, they won't have my money. It's a pretty simple principle and it is odd parents are just spending money and not demanding what they want as the consumer. Odd indeed.
Last edited by Poncho_NM; 12132015 at 11:39 AM..

12122015, 02:16 PM



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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053

These are BN workbooks but are not the Kumon worksheets. They are different.
I hear Singapore Math is good. Is there a program with practice worksheets or do you have to prepare them on your own? What do you find that makes Singapore Math not rote and boring as you indicated about Kumon? Please share.

12122015, 06:48 PM



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12132015, 06:19 PM



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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053

I wanted to ensure I follow. Are you saying Singapore Math is not boring or rote bc it starts algebraic reasoning early? Just trying to follow. Thanks.

12132015, 10:00 PM



16,606 posts, read 19,034,095 times
Reputation: 16550


Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer
I wanted to ensure I follow. Are you saying Singapore Math is not boring or rote bc it starts algebraic reasoning early? Just trying to follow. Thanks.

Singapore math teaches thinking skills and problem solving *not* memorizing and following an algorithm.

12142015, 12:45 PM



1,927 posts, read 1,360,647 times
Reputation: 5073


Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer
I wanted to ensure I follow. Are you saying Singapore Math is not boring or rote bc it starts algebraic reasoning early? Just trying to follow. Thanks.

I have both Kumon books and Singapore Math books, and have used both with my child. Let me use the example of teaching simple multiplication.
Kumon has pages and pages of neat rows of multiplication problems. Just problem after problem after problem, which you do over and over and over until you have all of the answers memorized and can do it reflexively. With enough practice, you could do multiplication very quickly and easily with this book, without understanding what multiplication actually means, or being able to explain it. You just know 3x3=9, but you only have a vague notion as to why.
Singapore Math has a homeschool teacher's manual that instructs me on how to use interlocking math blocks to demonstrate to my child physically how multiplication works. The manual goes on to tell me how to make 3 groups of 4 and 4 groups of 3 with the blocks, and show my child how they are different and how they are the same. Then the text book has a number of pictorial examples that I am instructed to go through with my child, where my child works through each example with the blocks, or with pictures, or both. Then the workbook has several pages of practice, but every page is a little different. The first practice page shows how multiplying by 3 is like counting by 3. The second practice page has pictures of blocks where they want you to find the answer by circling groups. The third practice page focuses on the concept that 3x4 is the same as 4x3. The forth practice page has word problems that use the multiplication facts. The fifth page has a game where you decode a secret message using the answers to the problems. It goes on like this for several pages.
Then after that, the homeschool teacher's manual has a page of multiplication problems to be used for "mental math exercise" where I read the problems to my child and have him/her tell me the answer. Usually while they are running around climbing on things in the living room, exercising their minds and bodies at the same time. Finally, the Challenging Word Problem book has a series of more challenging word problems that use the multiplication facts, but also make the student really think about the problem. The book teaches you how to draw bar diagrams to model difficult problems, to aid in solving them. My daughter and I worked through a problem over the weekend that took her 2 days to solve, 20 minutes each day. She drew 2 different models and had to sleep on it, but finally figured it out. (the trick she figured out was early algebraic reasoning, by the way)
Having just gone through teaching my daughter multiplication by 3 using the Singapore Math curriculum, I am now completely sure she understands it. She doesn't even have to have the facts memorized, because she understands the concept well enough to figure out the answer very quickly every time. Eventually she will have them memorized just through familiarity.
Her Kumon workbook, by the way, is sitting on the shelf gathering dust, not used after the first page. I think it would be useful to kids who have already been taught the concepts, and just need some more repetitive practice. Many kids need that. But Kumon should only ever be extra practice for someone who needs it. It is not good for initial instruction, or teaching real concrete number sense.

12152015, 12:05 PM



2,615 posts, read 3,360,949 times
Reputation: 1478


Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbab5
I have both Kumon books and Singapore Math books, and have used both with my child. Let me use the example of teaching simple multiplication.
Kumon has pages and pages of neat rows of multiplication problems. Just problem after problem after problem, which you do over and over and over until you have all of the answers memorized and can do it reflexively. With enough practice, you could do multiplication very quickly and easily with this book, without understanding what multiplication actually means, or being able to explain it. You just know 3x3=9, but you only have a vague notion as to why.
Singapore Math has a homeschool teacher's manual that instructs me on how to use interlocking math blocks to demonstrate to my child physically how multiplication works. The manual goes on to tell me how to make 3 groups of 4 and 4 groups of 3 with the blocks, and show my child how they are different and how they are the same. Then the text book has a number of pictorial examples that I am instructed to go through with my child, where my child works through each example with the blocks, or with pictures, or both. Then the workbook has several pages of practice, but every page is a little different. The first practice page shows how multiplying by 3 is like counting by 3. The second practice page has pictures of blocks where they want you to find the answer by circling groups. The third practice page focuses on the concept that 3x4 is the same as 4x3. The forth practice page has word problems that use the multiplication facts. The fifth page has a game where you decode a secret message using the answers to the problems. It goes on like this for several pages.
Then after that, the homeschool teacher's manual has a page of multiplication problems to be used for "mental math exercise" where I read the problems to my child and have him/her tell me the answer. Usually while they are running around climbing on things in the living room, exercising their minds and bodies at the same time. Finally, the Challenging Word Problem book has a series of more challenging word problems that use the multiplication facts, but also make the student really think about the problem. The book teaches you how to draw bar diagrams to model difficult problems, to aid in solving them. My daughter and I worked through a problem over the weekend that took her 2 days to solve, 20 minutes each day. She drew 2 different models and had to sleep on it, but finally figured it out. (the trick she figured out was early algebraic reasoning, by the way)
Having just gone through teaching my daughter multiplication by 3 using the Singapore Math curriculum, I am now completely sure she understands it. She doesn't even have to have the facts memorized, because she understands the concept well enough to figure out the answer very quickly every time. Eventually she will have them memorized just through familiarity.
Her Kumon workbook, by the way, is sitting on the shelf gathering dust, not used after the first page. I think it would be useful to kids who have already been taught the concepts, and just need some more repetitive practice. Many kids need that. But Kumon should only ever be extra practice for someone who needs it. It is not good for initial instruction, or teaching real concrete number sense.

Wow. Thanks for that example. I do feel Kumon Math does not do a good job of explaining how to do math. It seems to leave it up to the person helping the child to come up with the how part and the why part also. Singapore Math sounds more like a homeschool entire curriculum than practice, like Kumon. Are there daily problems to solve also or is that at the end? Are there quizzes or some other preformatted assessmt to confirm that your child can do x number of problems competently in a certain amt of time? Thanks for your feedback.

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