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I have the complete opposite experience. My highly educated community is very liberal and my highly educated friends are ALL liberal leaning. The conservatives I know all make fun of education- mostly cause they don't have one.
The older and more successful we (my friends) get, the more progressive we become.
That's been our experience also. We are very liberal and both have advanced degrees.
Conservative always seem hostile towards higher education, and make fun of it. Either because of the reason that you stated, or because they want education for themselves and their children - but not for you, or anyone who is poor or of color.
It's true, having your preconceptions and comfortable ideas challenged does help you rethink them.
It's more like having to bend over backwards to get a good grade in a liberal professor's class b/c of his/her preconceptions/self-righteous ideas/lack of living in the real world....
Challenge the liberal professor who can't see beyond his/her own PERSONAL belief system and risk your GPA? Why bother?
Yet, why are they allowed to do so? These "professors"? Teach the material & leave your personal slant at home.
One's personal political & religious beliefs should be kept out of education at every level.
Going to college does not make you smart. I have yet to understand how some of these programs and majors makes a person think critically.
How does spending four years in college racking up 1000's of dollars in student loans, majoring in a useless degree (History, General Studies, Journalism, Marketing, Law, Classics,MBA Programs, fill in the blank Studies, etc.), only to get out with no job skills and have learned nothing that applies to the real world?
Unless you are getting a engineering degree or advanced science degree you are not learning think. You are only being told what to think.
That's been our experience also. We are very liberal and both have advanced degrees.
Conservative always seem hostile towards higher education, and make fun of it. Either because of the reason that you stated, or because they want education for themselves and their children - but not for you, or anyone who is poor or of color.
Not the conservatives I know, including me. We all highly value education and don't think it's not for others, poor people, or people of color. Stop being so judgemental and prejudiced against people who think differently than you do. What's that about conservatives being the narrow minded people?
Going to college does not make you smart. I have yet to understand how some of these programs and majors makes a person think critically.
How does spending four years in college racking up 1000's of dollars in student loans, majoring in a useless degree (History, General Studies, Journalism, Marketing, Law, Classics,MBA Programs, fill in the blank Studies, etc.), only to get out with no job skills and have learned nothing that applies to the real world?
Unless you are getting a engineering degree or advanced science degree you are not learning think. You are only being told what to think.
Interesting position. I agree there are some "useless degrees" if you see going to college SOLELY to get job skills. But if you go to college to learn how to do research, write or speak well, pursue a passion, expose yourself to different ways of thinking, etc AND still be able to get a job then there are no "useless' degrees.
Obviously you have not been exposed to some of the programs you put down. Business (Marketing), Law and MBA programs all teach practical and critical thinking skills based on real life scenarios and case studies. And how boring and useless would society be in everybody was an engineer? My husband had a successful engineering career for 50 years. While my MBA helped me create two of my own businesses and still be home most of the time with 4 kids, my degree in Landscape Design brought in more money and gave me more satisfaction than the other ventures.
Society will always need educated folks in every discipline.( We also need blue collar workers too.) I suppose you are somebody who thinks art and music are a waste of time? These studies in college certainly teach the critical thinking and foster the creativity every society needs to prosper.
It's more like having to bend over backwards to get a good grade in a liberal professor's class b/c of his/her preconceptions/self-righteous ideas/lack of living in the real world....
Challenge the liberal professor who can't see beyond his/her own PERSONAL belief system and risk your GPA? Why bother?
Yet, why are they allowed to do so? These "professors"? Teach the material & leave your personal slant at home.
One's personal political & religious beliefs should be kept out of education at every level.
Except, of course,unless they are YOUR political and religious beliefs. Right? There are more conservatives aiming for christain "values" and revisionist history to be taught in schools than liberals aiming for "self-righteous ideas".
And in case you didn't know.....professors and college educators are not rolling in dough from teaching. Most if not all have been in the "real world" working to put themselves through school, supporting their families, etc. And most have second jobs.
In colleges and universities most of the teaching is done by adjuncts and TAs who all have second jobs just to make ends meet. The full PhDs are doing research and writing papers so their schools can get grants and attract other researchers.
Interesting position. I agree there are some "useless degrees" if you see going to college SOLELY to get job skills. But if you go to college to learn how to do research, write or speak well, pursue a passion, expose yourself to different ways of thinking, etc AND still be able to get a job then there are no "useless' degrees.
Obviously you have not been exposed to some of the programs you put down. Business (Marketing), Law and MBA programs all teach practical and critical thinking skills based on real life scenarios and case studies. And how boring and useless would society be in everybody was an engineer? My husband had a successful engineering career for 50 years. While my MBA helped me create two of my own businesses and still be home most of the time with 4 kids, my degree in Landscape Design brought in more money and gave me more satisfaction than the other ventures.
Society will always need educated folks in every discipline.( We also need blue collar workers too.) I suppose you are somebody who thinks art and music are a waste of time? These studies in college certainly teach the critical thinking and foster the creativity every society needs to prosper.
Not to mention, both law and MBA, mentioned by the poster you are responding to, are graduate programs. I do not see either one of these useless. I used to go to a doctor who had an undergrad in art history. I know a young woman now getting a PhD in nursing who has an undergrad in women's studies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu
Except, of course,unless they are YOUR political and religious beliefs. Right? There are more conservatives aiming for christain "values" and revisionist history to be taught in schools than liberals aiming for "self-righteous ideas".
And in case you didn't know.....professors and college educators are not rolling in dough from teaching. Most if not all have been in the "real world" working to put themselves through school, supporting their families, etc. And most have second jobs.
In colleges and universities most of the teaching is done by adjuncts and TAs who all have second jobs just to make ends meet. The full PhDs are doing research and writing papers so their schools can get grants and attract other researchers.
I have to slightly disagree. The general philosophy of many schools, all the public K-12 schools my kids went to, is "liberal". I'm not sure that's bad, it just is. I can remember when the talk was to not teach "values". I was in a discussion with someone about this and said that schools implicitly teach values, e.g. no cheating, having various "honor codes", etc. Not that those are wrong, or even "liberal". But the "no bullying" stuff, the GLBTQ acceptance, things like that, which I agree with, are pretty "liberal".
I disagree that "most" profs have second jobs, as well. Not the ones I know. I've lived in a county with a university for many years, and before that in a university town. I've known a lot. The TAs I've known, again quite a few including DH, didn't have second jobs, either.
That's been our experience also. We are very liberal and both have advanced degrees.
Conservative always seem hostile towards higher education, and make fun of it. Either because of the reason that you stated, or because they want education for themselves and their children - but not for you, or anyone who is poor or of color.
Honestly you must live in an alternate universe to believe that. I have never ever heard such drivel.
I disagree that "most" profs have second jobs, as well. Not the ones I know. I've lived in a county with a university for many years, and before that in a university town. I've known a lot. The TAs I've known, again quite a few including DH, didn't have second jobs, either.
We had an interesting discussion some time ago in Education Forum about adjunct and how poorly they are paid. Don't have time to find it now.
Simply google adjuncts pay and see what comes up. here is just an example.
When my son was a TA here at UNC he also tutored ROTC cadets, high school students, house and pet sat, and painted houses to keep going. Even after he got his PhD in physics he found very few opportunities in his field in this country and is now in his 3rd year teaching in Kazakhstan at 3 times what he could have made in the states.
Living in a university town we see many graduate students, including TAs and adjuncts and even associate professors delivering pizza, waiting tables, working retail to make ends meet and our public school teachers, including those with graduate degrees overwhelmingly have second jobs.
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