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Old 09-05-2016, 03:26 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
7,105 posts, read 2,217,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fay111 View Post
We just went through this with my granddaughter, who is in fourth grade. She is in gifted, but it only meets once or twice a week. She said she wasn't learning anything new and was very bored in school. She asked to skip a grade.


My son and DIL discussed this with her school. She was tested - very high IQ and highly proficient in fifth grade work. Their concern (and mine) was the social ramifications, especially in the teen years.


In the end, a decision was made to have her moved to fifth grade math for the remainder of the year. Next year she will take sixth grade math and language arts. Family was told that in sixth grade she could take some courses in the junior high. Once she is in seventh grade, there will be a lot more opportunity for advanced courses.


She seems happy with the decision, at least so far.


My sister, who teaches elementary school and who we consulted about this, had a lot to say about how little we do for the very advanced kids. She believes they should be more challenged every day. While gifted classes help, they are not enough. Unfortunately, the funding isn't there in most schools to give these kids all the stimulation they need and are capable of handling.
Here's a story on this subject that is very different than what many have described here. When I was in school, there was absolutely no grade-skipping allowed. There were no advanced-placement classes nor dual-credit high-school/college courses, even though a university was just a few blocks away. Nothing was provided for students with advanced capabilities, either. So from the earliest time, I provided my own advanced education. I mostly ignored what was going on in the classes, but always got the highest scores on comprehensive tests from national agencies.

After the middle of the 2nd grade, the teachers and a district administrator who worked behind the scenes, took out their revenge on me for doing that. My equivalent of straight "A" grades became "C-" or "D" grades on my report cards (a different letter system was used in our grade-schools then). I looked up my 2nd grade report card recently and there it was, all "A" grades for the first two 9-week periods and "C-" and "D" grades for the last two periods. That was the way they dealt with independent-minded high-achievers then. This same pattern continued all through high-school.

I got the highest score in the nation on a 12-hour comprehensive test, as a Senior. I had the score sheet in my hand for 5 minutes, before the order went out from that administrator to confiscate and destroy it. They altered my attendance record to indicate that I'd been absent on the testing days. Two teachers who tried to inquire about what had happened, were threatened with dismissal, unless they forgot about it and backed off. But one of those teachers was assigned to send out some of the transcripts to colleges, including mine. He remembered my score and wrote it in the remarks section, along with his personal recommendation. It's probably the only reason I was admitted to college, as my GPA was the lowest of all graduates in my class.
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Old 09-05-2016, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,990 posts, read 98,847,978 times
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^^That does sound like an extreme situation, and not likely to happen today.
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Old 09-05-2016, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Steve, when were you in high school, roughly? Yikes!

I skipped the second grade. I was in a state with a January 1 cutoff, and my birthday is in January, so I was basically the oldest kid in the class. When I moved along to third grade, I was the youngest, but only by a few weeks. Academically, it worked out very well; I went to gifted classes once per week through elementary/middle school, and took honors classes in high school. Socially, I was a bit behind. I had friends, but I spent much of high school not quite at the level of my peers, socially speaking. By senior year, I was all caught up. I went to high school in the early 90s.

I would probably not skip ahead a child who was not one of the oldest in the class already. That being said, we homeschool, so our kids just work to their own level. I don't know what I'd do if I had a gifted child being held back in a regular classroom, but I'm not convinced that just putting them in with kids a year older would help much. I do like the Montessori method of having kids within a few years of each other in one classroom, so they can all work to their own level despite what grade they're actually in.
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Old 09-05-2016, 11:14 AM
 
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When and where were you in high school, Steve? I don't know why any teachers or principals would do that.

My aunt skipped a grade in the 1940s in New York (not in NYC though) and went to college at 16 (her HS diploma was given to her after she successfully complete her freshman year at Mount Holyoke. My cousin skipped a grade in the 1950s. I did not skip in the 1950s, but I started at 4 (turned 5 in March of my kindergarten year) and I took AP classes in the late 50s and early 60s in high school and so did my sister, though not many were offered. I admit to being a bit bored in elementary school, but I usually just read my scifi books behind my folders and got my work done. My kids were born in the early 70s in Illinois and they took more AP classes than I did and some of their classmates took college classes at Northwestern. There were g/t programs then as well. My granddaughter who started K here in Texas had g/t classes though we had to change some of them in jr. high. She is currently a freshman and taking sophomore level courses despite being a young freshman (turned 14 at the very end of July).
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:06 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Originally Posted by Informed Info View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Booger eaters is a bit over the top. Tantrum throwers, to my mind, is a good way of describing some children (I am not talking about those with disabilities) not socialized for the public.
Do you have children?
Two, one now 20 and the other 19. The latter actually is on the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum, which is why I mentioned "children with disabilities." He had a few meltdowns but not that many,. However I am aware of the problem.

We took care that he received appropriate assistance so other children were not impacted. I don't think everyone does likewise.
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:41 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
I got the highest score in the nation on a 12-hour comprehensive test, as a Senior. I had the score sheet in my hand for 5 minutes, before the order went out from that administrator to confiscate and destroy it. They altered my attendance record to indicate that I'd been absent on the testing days. Two teachers who tried to inquire about what had happened, were threatened with dismissal, unless they forgot about it and backed off. But one of those teachers was assigned to send out some of the transcripts to colleges, including mine. He remembered my score and wrote it in the remarks section, along with his personal recommendation. It's probably the only reason I was admitted to college, as my GPA was the lowest of all graduates in my class.
I had a somewhat similar experience, at least in some of the details.

I attended high school in a district that strongly encourage honors courses and AP credit, graduating in 1975. The "fireworks" though go back to my freshman year, Academic 1971-2 and in particular November 1972. At the beginning of my freshman year my father had a major operation for cancer which later turned out to be unsuccessful. I had major social and adjustment problems that particular year. A teacher we'll call "Mrs. O" was my homeroom teacher in my freshman year.

Fast forward to sophomore year, 1972-3. That year I was far better adjusted socially. In fact, Mrs. O remarked on that to my band teacher. Notwithstanding her being impressed, when she met my mother and (soon to be deceased) natural father at parent-teacher night that November, the meeting did not go well. In fact, from what I heard later they nearly came to blows, though my father was by nature a peaceful, accomplished professional. In April 1973 I sat for a written exam to get into AP History. Almost alone among the people who sat for the test, I was not admitted to the AP courses. I did take other Honors-level history in Fall 1973, Spring 1974 and Fall 1974. The Fall 1974 course was taught by the department chair, Mr. R. This is significant as the story develops. I received my early decision acceptance to Cornell just before Christmas 1974.

Spring 1975 was thus a leisurely semester. My mother suggested that I take the AP American History exam. I said "why waste the money" on the test, since I was not in the course. She said "just take it." I found the test almost ridiculously easy.

After graduation, that summer, when I returned to my local town for a summer band concert, Mr. R, the department chair, pulled me aside and said he needed to talk to me. He said "I wanted you to know, you got a '5' (a perfect score) on the AP exam, but please don't make too big a deal of it." I told my mother the good news along with the strange request "not to make too big a deal of it." My mother told me about Mrs. O's hoedown with my father, and thought he didn't want the obvious discrimination in the local paper. In any event I had no intention of spreading ill iwll in my hometown as I was leaving for college. That turned out to be a wise decision.
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Old 09-05-2016, 09:09 PM
 
8,232 posts, read 7,167,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Two, one now 20 and the other 19. The latter actually is on the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum, which is why I mentioned "children with disabilities." He had a few meltdowns but not that many,. However I am aware of the problem.

We took care that he received appropriate assistance so other children were not impacted. I don't think everyone does likewise.
Gotcha & thanks for getting back.
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Old 09-06-2016, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
7,105 posts, read 2,217,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
Steve, when were you in high school, roughly? Yikes!

I skipped the second grade. I was in a state with a January 1 cutoff, and my birthday is in January, so I was basically the oldest kid in the class. When I moved along to third grade, I was the youngest, but only by a few weeks. Academically, it worked out very well; I went to gifted classes once per week through elementary/middle school, and took honors classes in high school. Socially, I was a bit behind. I had friends, but I spent much of high school not quite at the level of my peers, socially speaking. By senior year, I was all caught up. I went to high school in the early 90s.

I would probably not skip ahead a child who was not one of the oldest in the class already. That being said, we homeschool, so our kids just work to their own level. I don't know what I'd do if I had a gifted child being held back in a regular classroom, but I'm not convinced that just putting them in with kids a year older would help much. I do like the Montessori method of having kids within a few years of each other in one classroom, so they can all work to their own level despite what grade they're actually in.
If only I could have skipped a grade or two and gone through school as smoothly as you. To answer your inquiry and those of several other people, I'll just say that my time in school was quite a while ago. It was before the type of accountability that is required of school administrators today, was in existence.

My previous description did not cover more than a few of the factors that were in play in my case. The administrator who caused me so much grief, was the driving force behind what the teachers did to minimize my apparent success regarding my grades. He was a quack Psychologist who was hired by the school district, to deal with problem students throughout the system. It appeared that he was unable to identify enough genuine issues to justify his position and salary, so he invented some and imposed them on targeted students.

Talking with a retired high-school coach years later, he told me he had kept careful track of this Psychologist's activities over a more than 20-year period. He said that more than 50 students had been sabotaged by him and were severely sanctioned, with grades dumbed-down and extra-curricular activities denied them. His favorite targets were students like me, who had learned to read early.

When I was in the 2nd grade, the teacher invited me to share something I'd told her about a natural event I'd observed, with the whole class. So I gave them a presentation and then we had a long discussion about it. The teacher told me that it had gone well and if I came up up with something else, we could do it again.

So every Friday, after lunch, I gave a presentation to the class about some locally-observable event, mostly about subjects of Science, Nature and Technology. One was about a partial eclipse of the Sun, another was about a visit by the Goodyear Blimp to town. Everyone enjoyed this, as it was a nice break from the usual lectures by the teacher. I kept doing this for several months.

But then, this twisted Psychologist heard about me and I guess he figured he could make something good seem bad, to serve his agenda. He pulled me out of class and started asking me some very ugly and inappropriate questions. He wanted to know who I hated the most and what I would do to them, if I could get away with it. I got along nicely with everyone and told him so and didn't give him anything he could use against me.

Back in class, the teacher said she wasn't allowed to tell me who he was and what he was trying to do. Then, two days later, I was called from class again and both my parents were there, to have a conference with the Psychologist. I remember exactly everything he said: "This boy has a severe psychological disorder and something has to be done with him immediately. You may think it's a good thing right now that he's getting top grades and giving lectures and leading discussions with his class. But I've seen all this before and it's the first sign of the emergence of a criminal mind. He must be brought into check quickly, while there's time. Otherwise, he may end up at age 18, being the leader of a gang of thugs and then spend his whole life in prison. I've thoroughly examined him (which he had not done at all) and diagnosed him as being a pathological over-achiever."

He then told my mother to make an appointment to come in to his office and they would "work out a plan". Read my first message in this thread for more of the details. To sum it up, he coerced teachers, principals and coaches to carry out his sanctions on me. Once they had done this, he had them trapped. They had become complicit in his abuse and if they tried to report him to higher authorities, they would have been brought down along with him. I think that Adolf Hitler was this Psychologist's role model. He did all his dirty work behind the scenes and had almost no profile that was known to the public. He ruled the hierarchy of the school district. Except that my 9th-grade Algebra teacher defied him and gave me straight "A" grades. He was the only teacher or coach who dared do this in all those years.

It was essential to him, that all of us who had been targeted by him, would continue to appear to be very unsuccessful in school. But every year, starting in the third grade, I always got the highest score on comprehensive tests given by national agencies. No one at the local level could tamper with the results, except for what I described had happened to my score sheet in my Senior year, in the previous message.

Although I was a good athlete, having trained daily since I was a small boy, I was banned from any participation on sports teams and could not be a part of any after-school activities. No girlfriends were allowed and he made arrangements with the Boy Scouts to turn me away. If I hadn't been so fortunate to talk with that retired coach years later, I would never have known much of what had happened. His intent was not just to restrict what I could do, but to make me think that I was shut out of those things, just because I wasn't good enough to qualify for them.

Somehow, after more than 20 years, the schools managed to rid themselves of him. I don't know exactly when or how, because the district purged all its records of any reference to his name. He never worked there, according to them. Even the local newspaper cooperated, by stripping its newspaper archives of any page that included his name. They were obviously afraid of the huge legal damage suits that might be brought against them, for allowing him to do all these things. Today, no one connected to those schools wants to discuss any of this. There's still teachers around that town who may have been involved.

So how about that one teacher who gave me good grades? All I know is that 5 years later, at age 39, he was found dead and no cause of which I'm aware, was ever determined. The several articles about his mysterious death, have also been removed from the newspaper archives. Is it any surprise that I'm not mentioning any names or locations?

Last edited by Steve McDonald; 09-06-2016 at 02:40 AM..
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Old 09-06-2016, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,990 posts, read 98,847,978 times
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OK, the whole situation sounds very weird to me. Not saying it didn't happen; it's just very strange. It does not sound germane to the topic we're discussing. Perhaps you need to talk this over with someone professionally.
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Old 09-06-2016, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Worse than skipping grades and dealing with being young...

Being so bored and discouraged you start to just hate school and disengage altogether.


This happened to me. Even though I was 17 when I graduated and had enough honors/AP and natural standardized test taking ability to become a Natl Merit Scholar, I loathed school from 5th-11th (both districts tops in the country with tons of gifted, honors, and AP courses). I didn't bother with studying, did homework sporadically, and spent way more time in sports or reading on my own.

Thank god for senior year (got to pick my classes and most were AP with fantastic teachers) and college (where I feel like my intellect and passion came back to life).

Putting kids on a conveyor belt can have terrible consequences. Blanket policies about skipping or no...eh...prolly not the most effective.
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