Appropriate Punishment in Elementary School, Middle School, High School? (county, public schools, paddling)

[BarbJ]

As a substitute teacher, one of the posters on the thread about the punishment of a disabled child, asked what board members would consider as an appropriate punishment for unruly behavior in elementary school, middle School and/or high school. Offer your opinions whether or not you currently have school age children.

[mullman]

At the core of this question is that nearly everyone will have a different definition on what is 'unruly behavior'. Just look around in your daily life. A day at the mall can show a plethora of different parent & child interactions and the boundaries of behavior they have wittingly or not imposed. I have seen children drop to the floor when told 'No' by a parent, or scream when they do not get their way. And the back-talking I hear sometimes is simply amazing. Just some small examples, but the parents have allowed this, and Monday through Friday an educator must deal with this. It is hard for an educator to punish at all since there is an absence of discipline at home in many cases.

Personally growing here up I was made to run laps, or for extreme misbehavior I was paddled in school (another teacher would be a witness). IIRC this paddling stopped around the time I went into middle school. Other punishments included writing sentences in longhand (same thing hundreds of times) in the classroom while everyone was allowed to go to recess and play. I remember standing in the corner for 30 minutes. Was any of this cruel and unusual? I do not think so. It probably taught me respect for authority.

I realize it is just a microcosm, but look at the threads here on crime in Charlotte or watch the news any night when there are stories for 5 minutes on violent crime. At the root of this are people who where never taught respect for authority, respect for others, or respect for themselves.

Watching A Christmas Story with my little ones over Christmas holiday I had to laugh.
Sassing my mother got me a mouthful of soap and I envisioned it doing sometime evil to me like Ralphie. 'Mom, I am blind by soap poisoning!'

Now as a parent, I follow in the footsteps of my parents (who say their parents, my grandparents, did the same).
If a little one gets punished at school, they get punished at home.
We follow through, even if we 100% do not agree with the situation, as it teaches consistency.
Questioning authority in front of the child makes them do the same and I cannot see any benefit in this.

A successful society needs guidelines and boundaries, and they must be instilled somewhere.

I am sure I will be called a 'troll' again for this post, but there it is.

[BarbJ]

Mullman said:
I am sure I will be called a 'troll' again for this post, but there it is.

I don't always agree with you Mullman, but I appreciate your honesty.

[BarbJ]

Mullman's post reminded me of something I'd forgotten: children could be paddled in school in Charlotte even as late as the 80"s. (Correct me if I have the wrong date.) According to this NYTimes article it is still permitted (although not practiced) in Union County:


Paddling in Public Schools (NYTimes)
In North Carolina, paddling is banned in the largest cities, like Charlotte. It remains legal in 70 percent of the state’s districts, although since they tend to be small and rural, fewer than half of the state’s students are covered.
Union County is one of the nation’s fastest-growing, with dozens of new suburban developments, often populated with transplants from the Northeast and elsewhere.

Ms. Dean, one of those transplants, came across the corporal punishment provisions while reading through her new district’s school policies and, shocked, decided to mount a campaign to have it outlawed that has made her the bane of local officials.

“They don’t like outsiders coming in and telling them how to run their schools,” Ms. Dean said.
She rallied others to the cause, finally forcing a vote on the issue last year.
School board members voted 5 to 3 to ban the practice, but under the district’s rules, a supermajority of six votes was needed, so the policy remains on the books.

This was new to me - I'm wondering how parents in Union County feel about this ruling.

[jaynarie]

I teach in Rowan and my principal is allowed to paddle, I am not. Not that I ever would, nor would my principal, but it is allowed (or so I am told.)

Punishments depend on the crime. As a substitute, bad behavior should not even be dealt with. It should be a ticket straight to the office. I subbed for two years in Michigan prior to coming here to teach full time, and I only sent two children down to the office. Both for being insubordinate. One in middle school and one in high school. Substitute referrals are taken very seriously at the district I subbed in. Automatic suspension, they have zero tolerance.

As for regular punishments, it truly varies. I am elementary, and I will give anything like silent lunch, write apologies, walk around the playground at recess or sentences (hee-hee). I had one child who would not stop talking, so he had to write me 25 reasons it is a problem for him and his classmates. I teach 5th grade, so even in elementary, appropriate punishments can vary.

[mullman]

Just as a funny aside, one of the last times I had to write sentences was when we got our first home computer. I had to write 100x that I would not talk without permission. I asked the teacher if I could type the sentences since it would help me practice my typing.
She agreed.

I went home and promptly wrote a program in BASIC to write the sentence X times.
The next day I turned in my punishment. The sentence 100,000x.

Simpler times...

[cjb113072]

Union County was paddling 2 years ago I believe. It is still allowed if part of a childs IEP.

[BarbJ]

Originally Posted by mullman

Just as a funny aside, one of the last times I had to write sentences was when we got our first home computer. I had to write 100x that I would not talk without permission. I asked the teacher if I could type the sentences since it would help me practice my typing.
She agreed.

I went home and promptly wrote a program in BASIC to write the sentence X times.
The next day I turned in my punishment. The sentence 100,000x.

Simpler times...

Mullman, I think your teachers (and probably your parents) had a hard time keeping up with you!

[mullman]

Originally Posted by BarbJ

Mullman, I think your teachers (and probably your parents) had a hard time keeping up with you!

I will not dispute that, BarbJ.
I was a busy child, but there was no malice in my mischief.

Mostly I got in trouble for talking, and then ended up making a lucrative living for a time as a public speaker - go figure...

[Huckleberry3911948]

IMHO
concept of punishment has been pretty much eradicated. its a rewards only system.
(it does not work) as to public school, we need voucher system badly.