Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I doubt it. I understand some of the gripes with teachers unions, both from members and the general public, but I don't see the profession being better off without some sort of a voice. Generally-speaking, working conditions and compensation are better for teachers in states where the unions are strong.
Well all I know is what I've heard. Do good teachers really like bad teachers being protected? I knew a very popular teacher who was unjustly accused of an impropriety with a student. He resigned to avoid embarrassing his family. He received absolutely no support from the union. Everyone knew he was innocent, including his principal but he couldn't afford a lengthy court case. Fortunately, he was eagerly hired by another school system.
On the other hand I've never heard a story about a helpful thing the unions have done for teachers. Have they done anything to raise teachers pay? Have they done anything to support teachers in dangerous schools? Have they done anything to ease the teachers workload or to regulate them having to teach to the Tests? Not that I know of.
She's worse than Rhee. She will starve our public schools and support charters with no accountability when they spend our tax money. She did it in Michigan and Michigan's educational outcomes have gone down every year since they approved her charter bill.
I think everyone knows that some things should be changed. I think there would be better treatment of teachers without the do nothing union to mess things up. As Dr Phil would say, "How's that working for ya?"
Let's give the new Ed Secty and Trump a chance before we start complaining.
So which is it? Are teacher's unions "all powerful" or "do nothing". I've heard both from the right.
Well all I know is what I've heard. Do good teachers really like bad teachers being protected? I knew a very popular teacher who was unjustly accused of an impropriety with a student. He resigned to avoid embarrassing his family. He received absolutely no support from the union. Everyone knew he was innocent, including his principal but he couldn't afford a lengthy court case. Fortunately, he was eagerly hired by another school system.
On the other hand I've never heard a story about a helpful thing the unions have done for teachers. Have they done anything to raise teachers pay? Have they done anything to support teachers in dangerous schools? Have they done anything to ease the teachers workload or to regulate them having to teach to the Tests? Not that I know of.
As a principal, I can tell you that any principal who can't get rid of a bad teacher is simply not doing his or her job.
Well all I know is what I've heard. Do good teachers really like bad teachers being protected? I knew a very popular teacher who was unjustly accused of an impropriety with a student. He resigned to avoid embarrassing his family. He received absolutely no support from the union. Everyone knew he was innocent, including his principal but he couldn't afford a lengthy court case. Fortunately, he was eagerly hired by another school system.
First, the occurrence of truly "bad" teachers is probably overstated. That said, no "good" teachers wants a "bad" teachers to be protected. Second, although your story is anecdotal, my suspicion is that you are just passing along the Cliff Notes version and there might be more to it. Something about it just seems odd and atypical of how I have seen the unions operate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts
On the other hand I've never heard a story about a helpful thing the unions have done for teachers. Have they done anything to raise teachers pay? Have they done anything to support teachers in dangerous schools? Have they done anything to ease the teachers workload or to regulate them having to teach to the Tests? Not that I know of.
In states where the unions are allowed to negotiate on such issues, they are constantly fighting for better pay, safer working conditions, reasonable workloads, and more strategic use of testing.
First, the occurrence of truly "bad" teachers is probably overstated. That said, no "good" teachers wants a "bad" teachers to be protected. Second, although your story is anecdotal, my suspicion is that you are just passing along the Cliff Notes version and there might be more to it. Something about it just seems odd and atypical of how I have seen the unions operate.
In states where the unions are allowed to negotiate on such issues, they are constantly fighting for better pay, safer working conditions, reasonable workloads, and more strategic use of testing.
I'll use an analogy for why you don't hear the good things about education:
Do you ever hear about all the airplanes, 1000s, which land safely every single day or the one which has in incident?
Same thing.
The only time you hear about teachers or their association/union is when there's a fight over something or other going on.
First, the occurrence of truly "bad" teachers is probably overstated. That said, no "good" teachers wants a "bad" teachers to be protected. Second, although your story is anecdotal, my suspicion is that you are just passing along the Cliff Notes version and there might be more to it. Something about it just seems odd and atypical of how I have seen the unions operate.
In states where the unions are allowed to negotiate on such issues, they are constantly fighting for better pay, safer working conditions, reasonable workloads, and more strategic use of testing.
I'm sorry but that is not my experience AT ALL. In fact, BULL.
A high school math teacher who declared "I don't believe in IEPs" and got away with that? So that I had to remove him from math and pay for a private tutor the rest of the year? BTW, that was the ONLY math he retained until this day.
A 7th grade homeroom teacher who STOLE my kid's hockey bag because he didn't like where he put it and DENIED it until another teacher ratted him out after I spent $800 replacing the equipment and threatened to put in a police report.
A 2nd or 3rd grade teacher who DISREGARDED my kid's IEP for developmental lag in fine motor and INSISTED his cursive be at the same level as others. So I TOOK the book, said "I'll work with him" and threw it in the trash.
A 1st grade teacher who gave my kid a NEGATIVE RED CHECK MARK in ART!! Under "Aesthetic Ability" even though he had developmental lags because he ERASED TOO HARD or it wasn't "pleasing" to her eye?
A 5th grade science teacher who threw projects at US like "make pulley and lever system" when I had no friggin idea what that was. WHY didn't they do it in the CLASS. You, know, like TEACH. Instead of create a contest for all the FATHERS.
A 3rd grade teacher who wrote a bunch of NONSENSE on my kid's report card and when I went in to review it, and came home, he goes "None of that was ME; it was ERIC".
As it turns out she couldn't handle the 35 kids with special needs MAINSTREAMED and didn't even KNOW one kid from another.
I could go on and on.
And THIS was in Bucks County, PA Upper Makefield the GOLD COAST of high taxpayer dollars.
My poor kid LOVED school and was so excited every year to get his books and see what he was going to learn. Until it became AWFUL For him AND for me. In fact, I have to say the ONLY teacher who was even nice at ALL was his gifted program guy who LOVED teaching and the fun of kids who liked learning.
College? I won't even GO INTO THAT disaster. $30K years ago at Lynn University and his freshman classes never even had ONE core course because they "were full". It took me TWO MONTHS to get that straightened out and he ended up being on the five year plan because of it.
THIS, a school which is supposed to support individual learning differences. HA. The dorms were so obnoxious he couldn't even study and I actually allowed him to move to an apartment for some peace and quiet.
You may not think things like this qualify as "bad teachers" but they do. They made my nice, friendly, smart, positive -attitude kid's live MISERABLE.
I'm sorry but that is not my experience AT ALL. In fact, BULL.
A high school math teacher who declared "I don't believe in IEPs" and got away with that? So that I had to remove him from math and pay for a private tutor the rest of the year? BTW, that was the ONLY math he retained until this day.
A 7th grade homeroom teacher who STOLE my kid's hockey bag because he didn't like where he put it and DENIED it until another teacher ratted him out after I spent $800 replacing the equipment and threatened to put in a police report.
A 2nd or 3rd grade teacher who DISREGARDED my kid's IEP for developmental lag in fine motor and INSISTED his cursive be at the same level as others. So I TOOK the book, said "I'll work with him" and threw it in the trash.
A 1st grade teacher who gave my kid a NEGATIVE RED CHECK MARK in ART!! Under "Aesthetic Ability" even though he had developmental lags because he ERASED TOO HARD or it wasn't "pleasing" to her eye?
A 5th grade science teacher who threw projects at US like "make pulley and lever system" when I had no friggin idea what that was. WHY didn't they do it in the CLASS. You, know, like TEACH. Instead of create a contest for all the FATHERS.
A 3rd grade teacher who wrote a bunch of NONSENSE on my kid's report card and when I went in to review it, and came home, he goes "None of that was ME; it was ERIC".
As it turns out she couldn't handle the 35 kids with special needs MAINSTREAMED and didn't even KNOW one kid from another.
I could go on and on.
And THIS was in Bucks County, PA Upper Makefield the GOLD COAST of high taxpayer dollars.
My poor kid LOVED school and was so excited every year to get his books and see what he was going to learn. Until it became AWFUL For him AND for me. In fact, I have to say the ONLY teacher who was even nice at ALL was his gifted program guy who LOVED teaching and the fun of kids who liked learning.
College? I won't even GO INTO THAT disaster. $30K years ago at Lynn University and his freshman classes never even had ONE core course because they "were full". It took me TWO MONTHS to get that straightened out and he ended up being on the five year plan because of it.
THIS, a school which is supposed to support individual learning differences. HA. The dorms were so obnoxious he couldn't even study and I actually allowed him to move to an apartment for some peace and quiet.
You may not think things like this qualify as "bad teachers" but they do. They made my nice, friendly, smart, positive -attitude kid's live MISERABLE.
Sounds like you had some bad experiences, but these are anecdotes, and as with the previous situation, I suspect there is more to the story. Regardless, there is not a higher proportion of bad teachers than there are bad workers in other professions.
She's worse than Rhee. She will starve our public schools and support charters with no accountability when they spend our tax money. She did it in Michigan and Michigan's educational outcomes have gone down every year since they approved her charter bill.
This is what I thought when I heard about her. I was thinking, "better the devil you know than the devil you don't".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
