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Do you realize that your grading system disadvantages the risk takers?
It's not my grading system and no it doesn't. Thinkers aren't grade chasers so the grading system doesn't hurt them. They think in spite of it. They also break things because they try stuff they probably shouldn't, lol.
Every now and again I have an A student who is a thinker. They are rare and incredibly intelligent. I have one right now. I've had 4 in my 10 years teaching. Grades aren't important to my thinkers. Thinking is.
It's not my grading system and no it doesn't. Thinkers aren't grade chasers so the grading system doesn't hurt them. They think in spite of it. They also break things because they try stuff they probably shouldn't, lol.
Every now and again I have an A student who is a thinker. They are rare and incredibly intelligent. I have one right now. I've had 4 in my 10 years teaching. Grades aren't important to my thinkers. Thinking is.
But the "thinkers" are hurt by the system since the college admissions process favors the grade chasers, whether fairly or not.
But the "thinkers" are hurt by the system since the college admissions process favors the grade chasers, whether fairly or not.
I hate to say it, but that's life. Get over it.
Something has to judge who gets into what colleges. Whatever system is will put some at an advantage and some at a disadvantage. You know...sorta like life.
Something has to judge who gets into what colleges. Whatever system is will put some at an advantage and some at a disadvantage. You know...sorta like life.
What do you want? A swim suit competition?
You are missing my point. My point is that Ivory has more respect for the risk takers than the grade chasers. I am pointing out that she is hypocritical, because her grading system very heavily favors the grade chasers, who she hates, while hurting the risk takers that she respects. She claims that the risk takers do not care about the grades, so they are not actually hurt. But the truth is, colleges use grades both for admissions and for scholarships, so the risk taker with lower grades is at a serious disadvantage compared to the grade chaser with higher grades.
But the "thinkers" are hurt by the system since the college admissions process favors the grade chasers, whether fairly or not.
Handing out unearned grades is not the answer. Fixing the college admissions process is. An A in one school might be a C in another. I got a D+ in high school chemistry and breezed through it in college while my peers who got A's struggled. My HS chemistry teacher had higher standards than I do. Every year I see students with 4.0's and near 4.0's go off to college and fall flat on their faces. Using grades to rank students isn't working and padding grades is not the answer. Colleges need to start looking less at grades and more at accomplishment. This has to be fixed at the college level not at the high school level.
This is part of the reason I favor common (at least at the state level) exit exams for every class in high school. Common exit exams would let you compare apples to apples. It would quickly become apparent which schools were participating in grade inflation and which weren't. My school is HUGE on grade inflation. GPA means nothing.
You are missing my point. My point is that Ivory has more respect for the risk takers than the grade chasers. I am pointing out that she is hypocritical, because her grading system very heavily favors the grade chasers, who she hates, while hurting the risk takers that she respects. She claims that the risk takers do not care about the grades, so they are not actually hurt. But the truth is, colleges use grades both for admissions and for scholarships, so the risk taker with lower grades is at a serious disadvantage compared to the grade chaser with higher grades.
Again it's not my grade system and it doesn't hurt my thinkers. They still think which is what they are good at. You are correct that I have more respect for a thinker earning a B than a hoop jumper getting an A. They do too. They know what's real. The last high flying thinker I had did not graduate as one of the 12 valedictorians that year but he entered an excellent university as a Junior on a full ride scholarship because he had taken so many AP and college courses in high school. Trust me. No one cared that he didn't 4 point it. The thinkers know that GPA doesn't mean much.
Why are you so hot on grade inflation? Afraid to take risks? Even if they don't get into the college of their choice my thinkers will do well in life while former A students flounder because they need someone to tell them what to do. The system won't hurt them because they won't let it. NOT working the system is part of who they are.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 01-04-2017 at 06:57 PM..
New York State still has the Regents Exams. I don't know if it is like it was when I was in school. We took the Regents exams as our final exam for our courses back then. Now I think it is just passing the Regents in five courses for a Regents Diploma or 9 courses for a Advanced Designation Regents Diploma.
New York State still has the Regents Exams. I don't know if it is like it was when I was in school. We took the Regents exams as our final exam for our courses back then. Now I think it is just passing the Regents in five courses for a Regents Diploma or 9 courses for a Advanced Designation Regents Diploma.
I'd love to see Regents exams like New York used to have. IMO it's really the only way to compare apples to apples. As things are you don't know if a student got an A from an easy teacher or a B from one who has very high standards. Exit exams would make it obvious.
I have no idea why we don't do this. If a standard is worth teaching it's worth testing. If you write tests that truly test what was intended to be learned you'd do away with the issue of teaching to the test too because the test would represent what needs to be learned. IMO you could fix a lot of what is wrong with education by implementing exit exams.
I'd love to see Regents exams like New York used to have. IMO it's really the only way to compare apples to apples. As things are you don't know if a student got an A from an easy teacher or a B from one who has very high standards. Exit exams would make it obvious.
I have no idea why we don't do this. If a standard is worth teaching it's worth testing. If you write tests that truly test what was intended to be learned you'd do away with the issue of teaching to the test too because the test would represent what needs to be learned. IMO you could fix a lot of what is wrong with education by implementing exit exams.
Schools have been doing these for years. We've got the most tested generation of students ever, but has it helped results? The pretty general conclusion is it's marginal at best and failure at worst. Look no further than Atlanta, or Nashville this past year, among others.
But beyond that, it is simply not a statistically valid method for measuring individual student performance. The data in aggregate might tell something about the teacher or the school (hence the cheating scandals) but for an individual student it's a single data point, with all the error that induces. How many false passes are OK? Or even worse, how many false fails are acceptable? How many kids are we willing to hold back because of one test on one day?
Schools have been doing these for years. We've got the most tested generation of students ever, but has it helped results? The pretty general conclusion is it's marginal at best and failure at worst. Look no further than Atlanta, or Nashville this past year, among others.
But beyond that, it is simply not a statistically valid method for measuring individual student performance. The data in aggregate might tell something about the teacher or the school (hence the cheating scandals) but for an individual student it's a single data point, with all the error that induces. How many false passes are OK? Or even worse, how many false fails are acceptable? How many kids are we willing to hold back because of one test on one day?
Not here in Michigan. Under the old standards I had 143 standards I was supposed to teach. The state chose 6 to test every year. SIX. Just SIX. You could rock it out of the park on 137 standards and your students could fail if the six tested were the six you didn't teach.
The problem with our current tests is that they do not test what is supposed to be taught. Properly written tests would. A properly written test shouldn't result in false passes/fails. It is EXTREMELY rare for a student to pass or fail my class based only on the final exam. My final exam is comprehensive and contains questions on multiple levels. Most of my students will score within half a grade of their normal grade on tests on the final exam.
If exit exams were used to determine pass/fail, and I think they should be to 1) ensure that teachers teach what they're supposed to and 2) that students are motivated to learn what is taught, I would think that second chances at passing the test would be in order like they are for the SAT and ACT.
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