Why aren't kids that do bullying things given more punishment? (public schools, scholarship)

[Whereitwent]

Bullying stems from an ancient survival instinct from the prehistoric period of human history. Until someone finds a way to squelch this quality of human nature, bullying will persist.

[newtovenice]

If kids were taught to stick up for themselves/defend themselves, it would solve most of the problems, if parents backed their kids up.

Unfortunately, kids aren't taught to defend themselves, and most parents will defer to the school, rather than rock the boat or be "that parent."

[newtovenice]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

There is another aspect of this which I think is not explored enough. Punishing the bully is, of course, a necessity.

But I don't enough attention is paid to why some children are perpetual victims.

Look to the parents.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by dizzybint

because they dont fit the mould... with looks.. clothes, shy behavour.. maybe dont have many friends. but the victims are never ever to blame.. so please dont even go there.

You need to stop jumping to conclusions.

Of course they don't fit the mold. And it has nothing to do with me blaming them. What we should be doing is also (in addition to punishing the bully; which I have already discussed more than once) is helping to see why they don't fit in and exploring whether or not they may want to make some changes.

Let me give you a couple of examples.

We had one girl, age 12, who was being bullied because kids said she was dirty, her hair was stringy, she had BO, and her clothes were terrible. Well guess what...all of things were VERY true. Does it mean she should be bullied? Of course not. But the counselor, female PE teacher, and I sat down and worked out a plan. Then we discussed the situation with her. She could see the relationship between her "condition" and the bullying, but her stupid mother had never taught her anything related to hygiene (guess she didn't want to go there). So, the school bought her a supply of shampoo, soap, appropriate feminine products, tooth brush and tooth paste, etc. Actually, I shouldn't say the school bought the stuff. We personally bought the stuff. Each morning, as soon as she got off the bus, she would be allowed into the building while other kids waited outside the building for the opening bell, would go to the PE locker room, and clean herself up. The PE teacher even laundered her clothes for her. All the while teaching her about hygiene. We even contacted the high school when she moved on to get them on board. For the most part, the problem was solved. But I guess we shouldn't have gone there. Right?

Then there was the Little Professor who came into my office crying (literally) about having no friends and how kids were picking on him. So we had a little discussion about how the level of English he was using was not appropriate to his peer group. In fact, it wasn't even appropriate to the faculty. In fact, in my whole life I had never met a person who put on such airs, obviously trying to demonstrate his intellectual superiority. Well, despite understanding the issue, he wanted to continue as was. So we continued punishing the bullies, and he continued being bullied throughout middle school and, from what I understand, throughout high school. And, I can't imagine what kind of work environment he would have fit into. Hence, probably a life of unhappiness. But, we tried to help him understand that while bullying is never appropriate, sometimes makes himself/herself the target.

And that's what I'm talking about. Most of us understand how we can make ourselves the target of disdain. But some kids and adults do not. And frankly, they need some counseling.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by newtovenice

If kids were taught to stick up for themselves/defend themselves, it would solve most of the problems, if parents backed their kids up.

Unfortunately, kids aren't taught to defend themselves, and most parents will defer to the school, rather than rock the boat or be "that parent."

While there can be merit to that, you assume that in all cases the kid taught to defend themselves might still be weaker than the bully.

[Zen88]

Oblivious parents, either because they're absent, or just in denial. Or incredibly stupid and over permissive.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by newtovenice

Look to the parents.

Looking to the parents doesn't actually help solve the problem most of the time.

[newtovenice]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

While there can be merit to that, you assume that in all cases the kid taught to defend themselves might still be weaker than the bully.

I said most problems could be solved. I also said parents must be involved. So if the child is weaker, it is up to the parent to protect them.

Would a parent let a child step off the curb into the path of a speeding truck? No.

So why would a parent send their child to school day after day, doing nothing to protect them from another kid who is tormenting them????

Self defense and REAL parental involvement. THAT will prevent/solve 99% of the problems.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by newtovenice

I said most problems could be solved. I also said parents must be involved. So if the child is weaker, it is up to the parent to protect them.

Would a parent let a child step off the curb into the path of a speeding truck? No.

So why would a parent send their child to school day after day, doing nothing to protect them from another kid who is tormenting them????

Self defense and REAL parental involvement. THAT will prevent/solve 99% of the problems.

I'm glad that you have some magical power that will lead "99%" of the parents to really and appropriately get involved. Unfortunately, if they were the type of parents who did get involved appropriately, the problem would often not exist to begin with.

[newtovenice]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

I'm glad that you have some magical power that will lead "99%" of the parents to really and appropriately get involved. Unfortunately, if they were the type of parents who did get involved appropriately, the problem would often not exist to begin with.

I'm not talking about the bullies parents.

I am talking about involvement of the parents whose kids are being bullied. If they get together and pressure administration, go to the media and make a big stink about it, you'd be surprised at the results. But no one wants to stick up for their kids and be that parent, rocking the boat.