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Old 08-13-2017, 12:36 PM
 
12,055 posts, read 7,944,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
The only way to find out is to try it.

But there is an inescapable fact that confronts all of us.
Technology has been and is continuing to change the world we live in.

There is no escape!

People lie and hide information about what you do not understand. Worked for IBM and in hifi equipment. Seen it myself.

Some SF makes science interesting. Stuff like Star Wars does not.

Some people read a lot but don't seem to learn much. All reading material is not informative. Some stuff I LIKE is not informative, but I admit that to myself. I don't suggest it to other people without that caveat however.

What have you suggested?
Kids should be allowed to explore their interests, within reason. Forcing kids to read about things that bore them to death is asking for the kid to hate reading later on, and is counterproductive. If the kid is interested in robotics, let them read robotics books. If the kid likes politics, let them read that. If the kid likes gardening, let them read that. And so on.

Otherwise, the child is going to think "reading" is something that must be done for its own sake, rather than as a way of learning about things. Kids need to see reading as a way of learning about things, otherwise it becomes a pointless chore to them. Do you want a kid that happily reads material to learn, or do you instead want a kid that stops as soon as adults aren't looking and then lies about it?

Never, ever assume that a child should be removed from something because it is above their grade or reading level. If a child does not understand something, they will remove themselves from it. It does not need to be externally imposed.

We recognize the need to be motivated to learn and to learn with things that one finds interesting. We recognize this for infants and for adults, so why not for children, who are intermediate between infants and adults?

Last edited by ncole1; 08-13-2017 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:28 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 808,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Forcing kids to read about things that bore them to death is asking for the kid to hate reading later on, and is counterproductive.
Who said anything about forcing anybody?

Aren't high school kids coerced to read Literature? I didn't argue about it but I read more SF voluntarily than what I had to read in school. The OP asked about Lexile. I think that is worthless. But you have to try something to find out if it is boring.

Some people say Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson is boring. I didn't think so and Arthur C. Clarke said future Martian colonists should read it. LOL But what education is, is a problem:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrXaQu_qGeo

I laughed my ass off when I saw that on TV in the late 80s. I knew the answer to that when I was in 8th grade. But then I thought about why I knew the answer. It was because the reading of SF got me to read about celestial mechanics not because the nuns taught us.

But what you are saying also applies to Catcher in the Rye. I refused to finish that in high school
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Old 08-13-2017, 04:18 PM
 
12,055 posts, read 7,944,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
Who said anything about forcing anybody?

Aren't high school kids coerced to read Literature? I didn't argue about it but I read more SF voluntarily than what I had to read in school. The OP asked about Lexile. I think that is worthless. But you have to try something to find out if it is boring.

Some people say Red Mars by Kim Stanley Robinson is boring. I didn't think so and Arthur C. Clarke said future Martian colonists should read it. LOL But what education is, is a problem:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrXaQu_qGeo

I laughed my ass off when I saw that on TV in the late 80s. I knew the answer to that when I was in 8th grade. But then I thought about why I knew the answer. It was because the reading of SF got me to read about celestial mechanics not because the nuns taught us.

But what you are saying also applies to Catcher in the Rye. I refused to finish that in high school
Interesting.

I guess OP could take it in a number of ways, but it just seems to me like OP's parenting strategy/philosophy is/was to choose a child's books for them, instead of allowing a kid to try things out on their own. If you recommend specifics to a parent like that, the parent might pressure the child to read that specific book. This is why I used the word "force".

Or the child can read this whole thread directly and see our suggestions. I don't get this nonsense about kids needing adults to do the talking for them. A normal 10-year-old could understand us just fine. The only thing off-limits is signing up for City-Data, because the higher-ups say you have to be at least 16.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:16 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 808,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Or the child can read this whole thread directly and see our suggestions. I don't get this nonsense about kids needing adults to do the talking for them. A normal 10-year-old could understand us just fine. The only thing off-limits is signing up for City-Data, because the higher-ups say you have to be at least 16.
I was reading at 4. My mother talked about it with me and my sister who was reading at that age also, though 4 years older than me, but I do not recall being taught at all. I recall reading Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer then but nothing else but Dick and Jane see spot run until 4th grade. I recall a 3rd grade teacher saying we had to turn in 10 book reports when we came back from summer vacation. I put it off until the last two weeks then I grabbed 10 books at random at the library and read them and wrote something. I don't recall any of it. And then no one asked about the book reports. I was Pissed.

But I accidentally stumbled across this in 4th grade:

Star Surgeon (1959) by Alan E. Nourse
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18492...-h/18492-h.htm
http://librivox.org/star-surgeon-by-alan-edward-nourse/
Review of Star Sugeon by Alan E. Nourse : SFFaudio
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Surgeon-A.../dp/1598180657

From then on I looked for SF. But I think what a kid encounters is still kind of random, at least back then. No one ever suggested anything. I look upon it as a waste.

I really can't imagine what it is like to be 10 these days. I didn't see grown men wearing Star Wars shirts in the 60s.

There were 5 TV stations in a major city, no cable, no Internet. Information and BS must be coming at kids like out of a fire hose today. So how are they supposed to figure out what is worth their time and helps the understand anything?

But there is a HUGE variation in what is called Science Fiction these days. Most people who call themselves SF fans now do not seem to be interested in science and hardly distinguish it from fantasy. Like Harry Potter is just as good. I tried two of those also. Look up SF on the Net and you will see this a lot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hi..._Galaxy_(novel)

I ignored it for almost 30 years and finally broke down and read it so I could give an honest opinion. I think it is mostly dumb but occasionally worth a weak chuckle. Fans call me names and say I have no taste.

But I cannot see the value of Lexile at all. To me it seems to be part of the education scam for companies to make money without actually informing anyone of anything.

The funny thing is my mother called my SF "something crazy" but whenever the TV picture was screwed up she called me to fix it.
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Old 08-14-2017, 09:20 AM
 
12,055 posts, read 7,944,199 times
Reputation: 8220
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
I was reading at 4. My mother talked about it with me and my sister who was reading at that age also, though 4 years older than me, but I do not recall being taught at all. I recall reading Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer then but nothing else but Dick and Jane see spot run until 4th grade. I recall a 3rd grade teacher saying we had to turn in 10 book reports when we came back from summer vacation. I put it off until the last two weeks then I grabbed 10 books at random at the library and read them and wrote something. I don't recall any of it. And then no one asked about the book reports. I was Pissed.

But I accidentally stumbled across this in 4th grade:

Star Surgeon (1959) by Alan E. Nourse
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18492...-h/18492-h.htm
http://librivox.org/star-surgeon-by-alan-edward-nourse/
Review of Star Sugeon by Alan E. Nourse : SFFaudio
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Surgeon-A.../dp/1598180657

From then on I looked for SF. But I think what a kid encounters is still kind of random, at least back then. No one ever suggested anything. I look upon it as a waste.

I really can't imagine what it is like to be 10 these days. I didn't see grown men wearing Star Wars shirts in the 60s.

There were 5 TV stations in a major city, no cable, no Internet. Information and BS must be coming at kids like out of a fire hose today. So how are they supposed to figure out what is worth their time and helps the understand anything?

But there is a HUGE variation in what is called Science Fiction these days. Most people who call themselves SF fans now do not seem to be interested in science and hardly distinguish it from fantasy. Like Harry Potter is just as good. I tried two of those also. Look up SF on the Net and you will see this a lot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hi..._Galaxy_(novel)

I ignored it for almost 30 years and finally broke down and read it so I could give an honest opinion. I think it is mostly dumb but occasionally worth a weak chuckle. Fans call me names and say I have no taste.

But I cannot see the value of Lexile at all. To me it seems to be part of the education scam for companies to make money without actually informing anyone of anything.

The funny thing is my mother called my SF "something crazy" but whenever the TV picture was screwed up she called me to fix it.
The irony.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:05 AM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 808,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
The irony.
Yeah, though I never said anything to her about it, it really pissed me off. She never read any of it to have an objective opinion and never said anything about science or engineering. "Go to school and do what the teachers tell you!"

The nitwit nuns never said anything about science or engineering either.

My sister told me that a nun said to her that "science and religion don't mix".

It is probably because of nuns that we have computers everywhere.

Is part of our problem with "education" that so many parents go along with the authority of the school system? Like giving a damn about Lexile?
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:59 PM
 
12,055 posts, read 7,944,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
Yeah, though I never said anything to her about it, it really pissed me off. She never read any of it to have an objective opinion and never said anything about science or engineering. "Go to school and do what the teachers tell you!"

The nitwit nuns never said anything about science or engineering either.

My sister told me that a nun said to her that "science and religion don't mix".

It is probably because of nuns that we have computers everywhere.

Is part of our problem with "education" that so many parents go along with the authority of the school system? Like giving a damn about Lexile?
It's not the authority of the school system per se, but it's closely related. It's that these parents have bought into the idea that learning has to be serial, that you have to first do A, then B, then C. Natural learning is not always like this. You can learn to write while also learning about something you will write *about*. But the K-12 system has promoted "serial" thinking, to the point that some believe that a pupil has a single, well-defined "reading level" that is independent of the pupil's background knowledge or interest in the subject that they are reading *about*. This is the mistake.

Sudbury school solves this issue.
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:17 PM
 
14,795 posts, read 15,283,539 times
Reputation: 14324
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
I was reading at 4. My mother talked about it with me and my sister who was reading at that age also, though 4 years older than me, but I do not recall being taught at all. I recall reading Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer then but nothing else but Dick and Jane see spot run until 4th grade. I recall a 3rd grade teacher saying we had to turn in 10 book reports when we came back from summer vacation. I put it off until the last two weeks then I grabbed 10 books at random at the library and read them and wrote something. I don't recall any of it. And then no one asked about the book reports. I was Pissed.
When the heck did you go to elementary school? Where in the US was this?

I am 72 and went to elementary school in 1950 in Nyack, NY and we read real books as well as reading primers. I remember The Twenty-One Balloons and Charlotte's Web. We probably were stuck with the Dick and Jane books in first and second grade, but I had a huge library of books at home and by third grade we were reading classics.

You seriously don't remember reading any books at your school? We also had music and sang together. WE read plenty of classic books and discussed them.
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:03 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 808,080 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
When the heck did you go to elementary school? Where in the US was this?.
The South Side of Chicago. One nun told me I would get into a good high school but I would not do well.

We all know Negroes aren't really very smart.

That is why I like books more than teachers. I don't care if they are electronic books. I don't have to be bothered with the authors ego.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:17 AM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 808,080 times
Reputation: 760
Bump!

Who knows, some kids might be interested in 100 year old books:

The Petrol Engine, by Francis John Kean
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/55403...-h/55403-h.htm

Had a conversation with a man wo told me he "Loved Cars!" and didn't know a cam shaft from a crank shaft.

Of course now an electronic book on a tablet could contain animations, less to visualize and imagine.
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