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Old 09-05-2017, 11:19 AM
 
Location: The analog world
12,410 posts, read 6,946,667 times
Reputation: 17004

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I think what's most important at that age is to make books available and see where his interests take him. Go to the library on Sunday morning and just browse as a family. Get him his own library card and let him check out whatever he wants. And don't stop reading aloud. Play audiobooks while you're eating dinner or commuting back and forth to activities. Recently, our family has been listening to The Oregon Trail: A New American Adventure by Rinker Buck. It's not something my sixteen-year-old would have picked up on his own, but he's really enjoying the audiobook.
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:31 PM
 
Location: The point of no return, er, NorCal
6,229 posts, read 3,449,815 times
Reputation: 7876
While your son may be capable of reading, say, 1984, he may find it rather boring and hard to enjoy. If he likes dystopian literature, there's a wide range to choose from that he may find more engaging and interesting. They may not all be college level, but they may interest him. My 5th grader prefers high fantasy and certain dystopian novels. She likes Neil Gaiman and Brandon Sanderson. She's currently reading the The Wicked Years series.

My 7th grader reads a lot of dystoptian and a mix of urban and high fantasy. Try Enders Game and Ready Player One. My 7th grader enjoyed both. She loved RPO. I also mix in poetry and non-fiction.

What about The Count of Monte Cristo and The Three Musketeers? My 5th grader added those to her reading list for the fall/winter.
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Old 09-07-2017, 11:11 AM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 806,952 times
Reputation: 760
These are the Lexile ratings for Harry Potter:

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone 880L Grade 5-6
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets 940L Grade 5-6
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban 880L Grade 5-6
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire 880L Grade 5-6

The Harry Potter series is 6 megabytes long. Rowling uses the word 'wand' 1,500 times. What can a grade school kid learn from that?

Quote:
Shocking as that example is, there's a bigger problem: the Lexile system punishes good writing and rewards bad writing. I'll illustrate this point with an example. Here's the first sentence of a book that sixth-grader would have been allowed to read, a book with a Lexile of 1650:
Quote:
Ah, the lexile! It is crazy that we need to numerify something that is not really a number. Language is language and numbers are a language of their own.

Anyway, I don't think that numbers can ever truly represent a piece of literature. That being said, my problem is more with that child's teacher (and her mom) than the lexile of your book. The teacher is abusing the lexile system by trying to confine her students' reading into a number. Just because a book has a number of 500, does not mean that the content is appropriate for all third graders. The lexile attempts to measure word and sentence length difficulty but has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on content!!!
The League of Extraordinary Writers: How the Lexile System Harms Students
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:59 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 806,952 times
Reputation: 760
These reading level systems go back to at least 1948 and back then they did not have cheap computers to analyze lots of text. They use different formulas but usually involve sentence length and number of syllables in words.

The problem now is that cheap computers and free software would make it difficult to make money. But if they can get the exclusive backing of the educational system then income streams from parents, teachers and possibly book publishers can be created. Therefore we have Lexile, ATOS, Guided Reading.

Quote:
Subscription Pricing Single annual subscription: $25 per year
School subscriptions:
  • 1-5 teachers: $25 per teacher
  • 6-10 teachers: $25 per teacher less 10%
  • 11-15 teachers: $25 per teacher less 15%
  • 16+ teachers: $25 per teacher less 20%
https://www.fandpleveledbooks.com/ab...okWebsite.aspx

A National Recommended Reading List that all students and parents had access to would screw up the money making scam.

Software to analyze text is no big deal:

Flesch Index To Determine The Readability Of A Text File With Python.

Flesch Index To Determine The Readability Of A Text File With Python. - Cool Python Codes


I will download it and try it.



Parents trust the "Educational System" too much. Of course young kids don't know any better.
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Old 09-09-2017, 07:46 AM
 
5,161 posts, read 6,842,961 times
Reputation: 5318
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
These reading level systems go back to at least 1948 and back then they did not have cheap computers to analyze lots of text. They use different formulas but usually involve sentence length and number of syllables in words.

The problem now is that cheap computers and free software would make it difficult to make money. But if they can get the exclusive backing of the educational system then income streams from parents, teachers and possibly book publishers can be created. Therefore we have Lexile, ATOS, Guided Reading.

[/list]https://www.fandpleveledbooks.com/ab...okWebsite.aspx

A National Recommended Reading List that all students and parents had access to would screw up the money making scam.

Software to analyze text is no big deal:

Flesch Index To Determine The Readability Of A Text File With Python.

Flesch Index To Determine The Readability Of A Text File With Python. - Cool Python Codes


I will download it and try it.



Parents trust the "Educational System" too much. Of course young kids don't know any better.

Will you please get over your quest for a national reading list! Most parents don't have their kids read any book never mind a national recommended list. It would just turn into a political ploy where one side would refuse to read a given set of books because the other side told them to.

People should read the books they find enjoyable and that are of interest to them.
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Old 09-09-2017, 09:03 AM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 806,952 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
People should read the books they find enjoyable and that are of interest to them.
So how does anyone figure that out from scratch? How many books does every kid have to waste time trying to learn what they enjoy?

Can't there be more to every book than enjoyment?

You think recommendations, with explanations for those recommendations, are worthless?

It is easy to find lots of lists, try finding one that explains why each book qualifies.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/grap...&year_end=2000

What happened to the word 'technology' since 1960? What do you expect today's children to need to know about it 10 and 20 years from now?

And do you think Lexile provides data on "Enjoyment"?

Do you understand the difference between 'recommended' and' mandatory'?

Last edited by psikeyhackr; 09-09-2017 at 09:20 AM..
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Old 09-09-2017, 09:13 AM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 806,952 times
Reputation: 760
Here is information on some text analysis:

A Fall of Moondust by Arthur C. Clarke
Flesch 73.17
SMOG 3.1
Flch-Kin 6.8
Colm-Liau 9.92
Automat 8.7
Dale-Chal 6.19
Dif_Wrds 8740
Linsear 8.5
Gun-Fog 8.0
Standard 8th and 9th grade

Dune by Frank Herbert
Flesch 77.23
SMOG 3.1
Flch-Kin 5.2
Colm-Liau 9.84
Automat 7.3
Dale-Chal 5.56
Dif_Wrds 17397
Linsear 5.5
Gun-Fog 6.4
Standard 5th and 6th grade

Harry Potter #1 by J. K. Rowling
Flesch 83.66
SMOG 3.1
Flch-Kin 4.8
Colm-Liau 8.8
Automat 7.0
Dale-Chal 5.56
Dif_Wrds 6300
Linsear 4.0
Gun-Fog 7.2
Standard 6th and 7th grade

How is any grade school kid supposed to know which of those they would or would not enjoy without trying them?

But how is Lexile any better than any freely available system except that school and corporations make money on it?
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Old 09-09-2017, 10:31 AM
 
5,161 posts, read 6,842,961 times
Reputation: 5318
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
So how does anyone figure that out from scratch? How many books does every kid have to waste time trying to learn what they enjoy?

Can't there be more to every book than enjoyment?

You think recommendations, with explanations for those recommendations, are worthless?

It is easy to find lots of lists, try finding one that explains why each book qualifies.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/grap...&year_end=2000

What happened to the word 'technology' since 1960? What do you expect today's children to need to know about it 10 and 20 years from now?

And do you think Lexile provides data on "Enjoyment"?

Do you understand the difference between 'recommended' and' mandatory'?
Kids know what they like. They then use the computer to search for books on that topic. It's not that hard.

ETA: when students take the lexile they first pick 3 topics they want to read about. The questions then come from those areas. FYI schools make no money from Lexie scores.
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Old 09-09-2017, 02:42 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 806,952 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
Kids know what they like. They then use the computer to search for books on that topic. It's not that hard.

ETA: when students take the lexile they first pick 3 topics they want to read about. The questions then come from those areas. FYI schools make no money from Lexie scores.
What is the TOPIC of The Hunger Games compared to The Long Tomorrow by Leigh Brackett who wrote The Empire Strikes Back?

Or White Fang by Jack London versus Black Beauty by Anna Sewell? Is it just a matter of animal stories or would English history during the Victorian Era get included? Try finding a review that considers getting history by osmosis.

I do not doubt that each individual kid can decide what s/he likes. I am not one of those people that has to finish a book once started. But it is nice to have an idea what is less likely to be a waste of time starting.

Do you think Lexile helps with that?

http://davis.foulger.info/papers/Sim...aseFormula.htm

And how would it be political if teachers and parents created the list by crowd sourcing on the Internet. Or do you presume that 'National' means 'Government'?
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Old 09-09-2017, 04:47 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,252 posts, read 806,952 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
Kids know what they like. They then use the computer to search for books on that topic. It's not that hard.
Suppose we pick the TOPIC of 'Electronics'.

How many books are there to choose from? How does a 7th grader who knows noting about it select one?

Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics (2006) by Stan Gibilisco
http://www.electronics-tutorials.com...lectronics.htm

EveryCircuit by Igor Vytyaz
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...rycircuit.free

The Art of Electronics 3rd ed(2015) by Horowitz and Hill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXnMTxeO2Ww
Chapter 10 in the 2nd edition for computers
http://iate.oac.uncor.edu/~manuel/li...20&%20Hill.pdf

What would be the Lexile of an electronics book?
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