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Old 08-24-2017, 08:07 AM
 
Location: North Texas
22,113 posts, read 28,170,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguitar77111 View Post
you go from being "truant" for not wanting to go to school to being "entitled" for wanting to go to school? Why is it that high school attendance is seen as an civic duty while college attendance is seen as a priviledge?
High school = Free.


College = Not free.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:08 AM
 
Location: North Texas
22,113 posts, read 28,170,348 times
Reputation: 23617
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Because a child becoming educated through high school benefits the public, and a high school graduate going to college benefits the individual.


Uh...I think you need to redo the math on that one.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
3,312 posts, read 2,753,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguitar77111 View Post
Actually, I see no reason to be so terrified of our own children.

I think you're joking, and I'm not going to respond to such a silly statement.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:02 AM
Status: "On Break" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
81,411 posts, read 91,942,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
The fallacy here is that many "technical" type jobs require as much "ability and focus" ... if not more ... than "a basic four year degree" in many disciplines.

Auto techs

HVAC techs

are but two of many trade jobs that come to mind.

Such is the arrogance of the college degree mindset. In all candor, I know a lot of children of friends these days with "4-year college degrees" that almost qualify them to be a clerk at a supermarket. Such is the level to which so many "basic" degree programs have fallen in the business of "higher education". And make no mistake, higher education is a business ... even in the not-for-profit state school systems, it's a business from the community colleges all the way through the university levels. With college profs knocking down tenured six-figure salaries, generous time off, sabbaticals to research topics of little meaning beyond esoteric discussion among their peers .... it's a business unto itself.

Recently, I've seen a number of MSW's fighting over entry level jobs paying $12/hr in our region. But the sad part is that those who couldn't find work but were financially able (grants, loans, family assistance) went on to get their PhD's ... and then still were competing for those entry level jobs to find gainful employment. How did so many of them wind up as MSW's? simple ... they couldn't find meaningful income with their basic degree in social work so went on to get that MSW degree.

Have another friend with a son that was interested in a career in politics upon his HS graduation. Got his "basic" college degree and then went on to a Master's in Economics. Couldn't find gainful employment with those degrees (from Columbia, no less ... on Daddy's dime), but found satisfaction and recreation in crew activities. Has been rowing at international events for these college years. Could be an Olympic competitor, he's good at this. Now has a full-ride scholarship for a PhD in Econ with a 3-yr window to get 'er done.
More years of fun rowing at events here and in Europe and in net effect being paid to do so. Will likely wind up in a teaching job perpetuating his professional education career of almost 12 years post HS graduation. It's a lifestyle, I guess. Will have all those degrees and I doubt will contribute anything meaningful to society due to his education achievements as implied by the poster above. He's a bright personable kid, tremendous athlete ... but not doing anything I'd call productive. Nor does he care to be productive as long as he can enjoy his recreational activities and afford a modest lifestyle.

I've got a local church group, a very strict sect that has their own school through 11th grade. Frankly, I've seen their kids demonstrate a higher level of reasoning skills and knowledge of basic HS subjects to a level that would put most college sophomores and juniors to shame. Been watching this group for 17 years now and their results are remarkable and consistent. Interesting that most of their teachers are volunteers who receive a very small stipend and community support. And their teachers frequently take a year or two off to do teaching outreach jobs overseas where their educational support helps others in less privileged communities. These people are making a difference in a very positive way. They consider it their obligation to be of assistance, so the lifestyle is not an imposition on them. The key difference is that these "teachers" don't have a formal education beyond 11th grade, although they do take it upon themselves to continue their studies on subjects of interest to them via independent studies. They don't have a union, they have no retirement benefits, and they don't have all the perks and income of the professional education business. They're just good at what they do and are passionate about it.
I'm always glad that I bookmarked this when I read posts like the above. As education level goes up, income goes up and unemployment goes down. https://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm Yes, there are outliers, but.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Arkansas
1,486 posts, read 402,092 times
Reputation: 3222
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Taxpayer is paying for k-12 (and schooling is required by law in some states)

12+ is on your own dime... and on your own 'CHOICE'.

ANY education is a Privilege, ESPECIALLY when funded by employers (lost productivity and HIGH expenses in scrap, and high risk for employers) for when you should have been listening in 4th grade... "How-to-read-a-tape-measure" & how to understand fractions...
I think K-12 education is a right, not a privilege. Every child should have the right to a taxpayer-funded education from K-12. It helps us all, in the end, not just those children receiving the education. It keeps many kids off the streets.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:07 AM
 
564 posts, read 193,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I disagree. We need doctors, nurses, lawyers, engineers and the like to keep society running. We need the liberal arts people as well.
Reasonable conclusion. But I'd say that is why college benefits the individual. So aren't you both right?
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:18 AM
 
9,044 posts, read 2,144,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Because a child becoming educated through high school benefits the public, and a high school graduate going to college benefits the individual.

This ,X2
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:22 AM
 
Location: My House
27,662 posts, read 22,958,914 times
Reputation: 21530
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguitar77111 View Post
you go from being "truant" for not wanting to go to school to being "entitled" for wanting to go to school? Why is it that high school attendance is seen as an civic duty while college attendance is seen as a priviledge?
Because old people didn't have to go to college to have good careers, and people now seem to have to go to college to have good careers and old people (some of them, not all) see this as "being lazy and not working hard" for some reason.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:38 AM
 
7,989 posts, read 3,780,969 times
Reputation: 14249
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguitar77111 View Post
you go from being "truant" for not wanting to go to school to being "entitled" for wanting to go to school? Why is it that high school attendance is seen as an civic duty while college attendance is seen as a priviledge?
"truant" means you have a lousy education ethic that probably came from poor parenting. Without an education, you're likely to become a burden on society so society insists that children attend school.

Nobody is "entitled" to a college education. You can be as poor as a church mouse and work your way through state schools without borrowing money and receive an excellent education. The "entitled" part is from people who see their friends who got A's in High School get into good colleges and put themselves on a career track to be affluent. Those "entitled" people got C's and no college that is worth much is going to admit them so they go to 3rd tier state schools or community colleges where they attended nearly useless watered down classes that are basically remedial high school. I remember them whining at Occupy Wall Street events. $50K in student loans to attend Outer Western Nowhere State with a psych or soc degree and now working as a Starbucks barista. Cry me a river. I'd rather hear from the dirt poor kid who got A's and nailed their SAT exam, attended an elite school with a big scholarship, and is now making jillions at Goldman Sachs. Or is on some other similar 1%er career track.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:57 AM
Status: "On Break" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
81,411 posts, read 91,942,586 times
Reputation: 28071
Quote:
Originally Posted by cekkk View Post
Reasonable conclusion. But I'd say that is why college benefits the individual. So aren't you both right?
Possibly. But K-12 benefits the individual as well, not just society.
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