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When I was a kid, I went to a school that started Tuesday after Labor Day and was usually out before June 1 (my birthday, which is why I remember; rarely got to bring in treats). But, we had off Columbus Day (very popular back east), Thursday/Friday at Thanksgiving, about a week at Christmas/New Year's, and Good Friday/Easter Monday in the spring. You start adding in a longer Thanksgiving break, winter break and spring break and you have to make up the days to get the minimum amount of time in.
I think I'm about 20 years younger than you, and grew up in California. We also started right after Labor Day, and had about two weeks more off during the school year than you did: Columbus Day and Thurs/Fri of Thanksgiving week, yes, plus two weeks for Christmas, either the week before or week after Easter (no extra day for Good Friday), and Memorial Day. We finished around June 15.
Ending before Memorial Day was unheard of, but also unheard of was this strange idea that any school after mid-May is a waste of time because kids just can't be expected to pay attention any more. School got out in mid-June and everyone knew it, there were final tests and so forth and we didn't have the mindset that we should have been on vacation already.
I think I'm about 20 years younger than you, and grew up in California. We also started right after Labor Day, and had about two weeks more off during the school year than you did: Columbus Day and Thurs/Fri of Thanksgiving week, yes, plus two weeks for Christmas, either the week before or week after Easter (no extra day for Good Friday), and Memorial Day. We finished around June 15.
Ending before Memorial Day was unheard of, but also unheard of was this strange idea that any school after mid-May is a waste of time because kids just can't be expected to pay attention any more. School got out in mid-June and everyone knew it, there were final tests and so forth and we didn't have the mindset that we should have been on vacation already.
Thank you for saying that! When I was in school (pleistocene era), we were usually but not always out by Memorial Day which date was fixed as May 30. It was not on a Monday except for every six years or so. Back then, Memorial Day was considered the beginning of summer, but it was not a three day weekend holiday with festivals, etc like it is now. Since 1971, Memorial Day has been the last Monday in May, making it any date from May 25-May 31.
I recall talking to a teacher friend one time who was arguing for ending the school year by Mem. Day by saying that the last week of school is basically a wrap-up anyway, not much new teaching being done. I thought (to myself) that would just move up the wrap-up week. I'm not a teacher and my own two kids are a small sample size, but I do think kids get excited for school to end by the last week or so, whenever it is. The exact date doesn't matter much.
This thread has been fun, it helped me clarify my thoughts on this issue. Basically, I now think:
1. It is impossible to start after Labor Day and be out by Memorial Day unless there is nearly no time off at all during the school year.
2. It is totally impossible to have finals before winter break (Christmas) and start after Labor Day. There is simply not enough time.
3. If you start after Labor Day, school will continue into June.
4. If your get out by Memorial Day, school has to start in mid-August.
5. The more time off during the school year, the longer the school year will be to get in the required amount of time.
....but also unheard of was this strange idea that any school after mid-May is a waste of time because kids just can't be expected to pay attention any more. School got out in mid-June and everyone knew it, there were final tests and so forth and we didn't have the mindset that we should have been on vacation already.
Here's the key thing that's changed. When you went, and even more so when I went, final exams were the culminating event just before school ended. Today however most of the lesson focus is on the standardized tests which are often in April. Once standardized tests are over it's like the whole school system has finised a marathon and collapses in exhaustion. Teachers and students both are done so finals become an afterthought and class time becomes butts in seats time to fill the mandatory days. But no learning is accomplished.
Think of it this way. If you took finals in April would you really pay attention for six more weeks?
I'm a bit curious as to why it is that wanting to be out of school at what is considered the traditional beginning of summer is any more "special" or entitled than wanting to delay the start of school until after what is traditionally considered the end of summer? I agree you can't have both and that schools without a/c is a consideration in some places. Other than that, one view is not more entitled than the other. It's purely preference.
Last edited by maciesmom; 09-07-2017 at 10:02 AM..
Here's the key thing that's changed. When you went, and even more so when I went, final exams were the culminating event just before school ended. Today however most of the lesson focus is on the standardized tests which are often in April. Once standardized tests are over it's like the whole school system has finised a marathon and collapses in exhaustion. Teachers and students both are done so finals become an afterthought and class time becomes butts in seats time to fill the mandatory days. But no learning is accomplished.
Think of it this way. If you took finals in April would you really pay attention for six more weeks?
Actually, the standardized tests for the ESSA (formerly No Child Left Behind) aren't even considered part of the standardized testing programs at the schools. See this link; they're not even mentioned. Those tests are more "testing the schools" than testing the students. They're not like finals; they have nothing to do with a student's grades. Counseling
The state standardized tests are done in March in my district. See this as well, explains the testing mandated by the state legislature. Our district actually has a lot of opt-outs for that testing. https://bvsd.org/dpc/Documents/BVSD%...ssessments.pdf
I'm a bit curious as to why it is that wanting to be out of school at what is considered the traditional beginning of summer is any more "special" or entitled than wanting to delay the start of school until after what is traditionally considered the end of summer? I agree you can't have both and that schools without a/c is a consideration in some places. Other than that, one view is not more entitled than the other. It's purely preference.
I was certainly not trying to say the above. At least three times in this thread I said that I didn't have strong feelings one way or the other. I did state a preference, also several times, but it should be obvious by my use of the work "preference" that I do not feel that my views are superior to anyone elses'. I'm not swayed by some of the arguments made for both sides, e.g. student burn-out in May for an earlier end; water park usage in August for a later start, etc.
Actually, the standardized tests for the ESSA (formerly No Child Left Behind) aren't even considered part of the standardized testing programs at the schools. See this link; they're not even mentioned. Those tests are more "testing the schools" than testing the students. They're not like finals; they have nothing to do with a student's grades. Counseling
The state standardized tests are done in March in my district. See this as well, explains the testing mandated by the state legislature. Our district actually has a lot of opt-outs for that testing. https://bvsd.org/dpc/Documents/BVSD%...ssessments.pdf
That depends on the state. Maryland does consider them as part of the standardized testing program (including the various makeup exams, "boot camps" during the school day for remediation/review and alternative path (project) completion).
In fact, our schedule was built around the tested subjects, which for Maryland were the state specific High School Assessments and, my last couple years, the transition to PARCC. Those classes were Alg I, Biology, Local, State and National Government and English 10.
That testing also include system generated benchmark tests in subjects not HSA/PARCC (although those, in addition to the HSA, also had benchmarks).
AP and other exams were an afterthought. Remember what I've said about all the school reform just really being aimed at the lowest 20%?
You did touch on something that's been a sore spot since all this testing started 30 years. Passing, or failing for that matter, the test has absolutely zero impact on whether a kid passes or fails the class. We did tie passing into graduation but there were so many loopholes to make that almost meaningless (see above about makeup projects).
Actually, the standardized tests for the ESSA (formerly No Child Left Behind) aren't even considered part of the standardized testing programs at the schools. See this link; they're not even mentioned. Those tests are more "testing the schools" than testing the students. They're not like finals; they have nothing to do with a student's grades. Counseling
The state standardized tests are done in March in my district. See this as well, explains the testing mandated by the state legislature. Our district actually has a lot of opt-outs for that testing. https://bvsd.org/dpc/Documents/BVSD%...ssessments.pdf
North Beach describes much the way it is around here. In fact the standardized test are more important than finals precisely because the school system is also graded on the results and THAT matters more to the administration than individual student performance. So much so there was a mini scandal in one of the districts in our state a couple years ago when it came out they were shuffling certain. Students between classes to game the overall school score.
North Beach describes much the way it is around here. In fact the standardized test are more important than finals precisely because the school system is also graded on the results and THAT matters more to the administration than individual student performance. So much so there was a mini scandal in one of the districts in our state a couple years ago when it came out they were shuffling certain. Students between classes to game the overall school score.
That depends on the state. Maryland does consider them as part of the standardized testing program (including the various makeup exams, "boot camps" during the school day for remediation/review and alternative path (project) completion).
In fact, our schedule was built around the tested subjects, which for Maryland were the state specific High School Assessments and, my last couple years, the transition to PARCC. Those classes were Alg I, Biology, Local, State and National Government and English 10.
That testing also include system generated benchmark tests in subjects not HSA/PARCC (although those, in addition to the HSA, also had benchmarks).
AP and other exams were an afterthought. Remember what I've said about all the school reform just really being aimed at the lowest 20%?
You did touch on something that's been a sore spot since all this testing started 30 years. Passing, or failing for that matter, the test has absolutely zero impact on whether a kid passes or fails the class. We did tie passing into graduation but there were so many loopholes to make that almost meaningless (see above about makeup projects).
I stand corrected.
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than wanting to delay the start of school until after what is traditionally considered the end of summer? I agree you can't have both and that schools without a/c is a consideration in some places. Other than that, one view is not more entitled than the other. It's purely preference.