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Old 09-07-2017, 08:31 PM
Status: "Summer's here!" (set 2 days ago)
Location: Foot of the Rockies
83,524 posts, read 96,559,297 times
Reputation: 30195


Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I think I'm following, so I'll try to answer below. If I misunderstood the question, let me know.
That's right. The school year was not over. But the learning was. That's what I'm getting at -- once the standardized tests were done, they were basically just killing time as butts in seats to meet the needed days in school, but they weren't doing any real learning of additional material. So considering the standardized tests as marking the practical end of the year, if those weren't there, and you gained that lost instructional time back, you could delay school start until after Labor Day and still get out before Memorial Day. Starman71 did an excellent job of summing up why those tests are where they are, but that then drives the rest of the school year around them.
Oh, puh-lease! Those tests have nothing, zero, zip, nada, zilch to do with a students's grade in a particular class. I repeat, nothing. You're trying to say your kids went to school every day for two months and didn't learn one new thing? You've got a bigger problem than the school start date, if that's the case.

Yep, that's why I'm advocating changing the law.
Not what you said originally. You said: "To me the real solution is to get rid of the standardized tests . . . "

I agree, but the alternative is slowing down the rest of the kids so that the pace is set by the slowest learners. I find it much easier to justify summer school as remedial time for those who can't keep pace than holding others back. I would take that catfight to improve the outcome for all students.
You're always so worried about slowing down the snowflakes. What evidence do you have that the present school year is holding the others back?

I'm not sure what you're asking about here? If you mean where I suggested MWF/TTH type scheduling, I'm not referring to block scheduling, but to typical college style class schedules that meet on different days rather than daily. It's the type of learning environment those who go to college will be in, so I believe part of the job of high school is to prepare them to succeed in that environment.
I'd be interested in seeing some links about schools that do "college" type scheduling. AFAIK, class hours are mandated as well. A two-three day a week course may not fly. The best way to prepare kids for college is to teach K-12 well. There's no need to imitate college.

Old 09-07-2017, 08:47 PM
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
19,795 posts, read 36,121,563 times
Reputation: 19321
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Oh, puh-lease! Those tests have nothing, zero, zip, nada, zilch to do with a students's grade in a particular class. I repeat, nothing. ... The best way to prepare kids for college is to teach K-12 well. There's no need to imitate college.
The best way to prepare kids for college is to teach K-12 well. You really believe this is related to 'classroom-butt-in-seat-time' ? (and have data to support?)

I don't think so...

Very enlightening to me to return to college as a grad student (post age 50) (and as a teacher)...

It is EZ to find the classmates / students who participate, and to ask and determine what has led them to be contributors vs, gleaners. I have not found 'butt-in-seat' / mandatory attendance / conventional students or classrooms at the forefront. Leaders / innovators do not come from a 'pack' / follower / classroom mentality or acceptance (tolerance) of such. True, there need to be 'followers', but quite honestly, any business / venture / school / military can only tolerate a few 'butts-in-seat'. There are often too many! (look around), very convenient way to 'endure' k-12 and beyond.

Sad we (leaders in edu (?)) encourage / promote / require / accept this.

Very sad... very telling, very evident (from the perspective of an employer / job creator).

A Crying shame.

Please... let's not IMITATE anything!
There's no need to imitate college Nothing special about college (if it is 'butt-in-seat') even 3 days / week. It is refreshing to travel to trade schools and international technical schools and find "teaching done well"! Even Dairy Farm Boarding school beat 'Butt-in-seat!' (tho after 4:30 AM wake / milking... it was kinda nice to get to sit down for a few hours before heading back to the milk parlor at 4:30 PM. Even my 5 yr apprenticeship was far more valuable than any day in a class room... (and it paid well, during and especially after getting Master Craftsman Cert). The first day my Homeschool kids had to endure 'butt-in-seat' was age 15, their first day in college.

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 09-07-2017 at 08:58 PM..
Old 09-07-2017, 10:20 PM
Location: 60630
11,344 posts, read 16,521,125 times
Reputation: 10237
In Chicago the kids start the day after labor day and school end June 20th.
Old 09-07-2017, 10:49 PM
Location: Eugene, Oregon
6,233 posts, read 1,855,357 times
Reputation: 8080
School takes up way too much time. This is popular with parents, because of the baby-sitting service it provides. But quantity does not take the place of quality. All this time in classes, stifles the enthusiasm of the students. Hold school for six months of the year, four days a week.

Communities should create many public-service, volunteer jobs that the students could use to fill much of their time. Older students could learn to organize and lead the younger ones. They might learn more about life and themselves doing these tasks, than they would in classrooms.
Old 09-08-2017, 05:17 AM
2,431 posts, read 1,624,656 times
Reputation: 4138
Whatever the teachers' unions want, for whatever their reasons. Can't have schools open without "teachers."
Old 09-08-2017, 07:04 AM
335 posts, read 191,694 times
Reputation: 418
Originally Posted by citizensadvocate View Post
I kind of agree. It may not do much, maybe allow some more time for teachers to teach materials or students to do coursework per class period but online learning may be a better alternative now that there are so much easy access to the internet. Too bad no real days off with the Internet on 24/7. Though its better than taking away spring break, holidays, saturdays, or summer break days but having the few students who show up for perfect attendance records just sitting in the classroom playing games or watching movies just to meet the number of day requirements.
Just a fact since 1990 California waives school districts from the duty to make up days due to unforeseen force majour events therefore there is no such thing as building in make up days in the calendar nor scrambling to make up a missed day.
The problem with making Internet access a requirement on "snow days" when not required any other time is the inequality due to many poorer families being unable to afford adequate access. In addition, that access is more likely to be lost in the case of a major storm.
Old 09-08-2017, 02:34 PM
Location: OHIO
1,504 posts, read 625,125 times
Reputation: 3447
My mom is a school teacher and when they changed it to starting before labor they were told it was because so many students take the opportunity to go post-secondary and take college classes. So they had to start at the same time the local college started I guess.

Idk, just what the teachers was told. She only teaches 3rd grade, but it's a small school so K-12 operates as one.
Old 09-08-2017, 09:40 PM
12,384 posts, read 26,520,876 times
Reputation: 6857
Thread will stay closed due to deterioration into insults.
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Last edited by toobusytoday; 09-10-2017 at 12:26 PM..
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