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Old 09-12-2017, 02:30 AM
 
1,651 posts, read 391,297 times
Reputation: 1634

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Yew betcha! Stick up for that little slug of a kid, no matter what he does. If he's been drinking, by God, they better find that out the legal way! No way they're gonna pin the rap on your kid - the drunken sot.

And even if they catch him, let's make 'em pay. Later in life when the little drunken sot turns to drugs we can use high price attorneys and get him off then, too. After all, if he want to drink and smoke pot, who are we to tell him he can't or force him to be accountable?

Yeah! Hillary For President! America is just great the way it is!
How much have you had to drink tonight, sir or ma'am?
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:43 AM
 
2,393 posts, read 3,635,276 times
Reputation: 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Gil View Post
4th Amendment violation? Sue them.
I don't think that's correct legally speaking. It's the same reason that states can revoke your Driver's License for refusing a blood test.
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Denver area
20,342 posts, read 20,367,669 times
Reputation: 31753
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazerj View Post
I don't think that's correct legally speaking. It's the same reason that states can revoke your Driver's License for refusing a blood test.
If you are refusing a blood test for DUI, you have presumably been pulled over or have other reason to believe you are intoxicated (by your own actions). I don't believe you are required to submit to a blood test because other people around you might be intoxicated. It's similar to DUI checkpoints (illegal in some states) - even then, I don't think they can demand a bloodtest without other suspicious behavior. And that's when driving is involved. A beer can being tossed in a football game - way over reaction by the principal.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:52 AM
 
3,921 posts, read 2,236,178 times
Reputation: 12528
When I sent my kids to school functions I expected the school to protect their safety. There's no way I'd want to send my kids to a school function with drunken teens around. At that age there's too much risk of poor decisions. Just what I'd want - a bunch of Senior males drunken and interested in my inexperienced little seventh grader. Or some surly, drunken upper classmen beating up on my ninth grade son for trying to protect her.


There's a time and place for young people to learn how to safely use alcohol and to deal with others who haven't and it's not in a school other than soberly and within a classroom.


I violated my kids "rights" all the time while they were growing up until I thought they were equipped to handle the responsibilities that go along with those rights. That's the job of a parent - gradually teaching and allowing more freedoms until you are no longer necessary. When I wasn't there I understood the school was to act in loco parentis.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:45 AM
 
8,985 posts, read 2,129,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
This is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment.
No it's not.When on school property you follow school rules and YES,even adults have to listen.Schools are no smoking zones adults must follow the rules as well as students and being it was the Principle and not just a teacher it's all legal.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:43 PM
 
545 posts, read 231,379 times
Reputation: 1140
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1.. View Post
No it's not.When on school property you follow school rules and YES,even adults have to listen.Schools are no smoking zones adults must follow the rules as well as students and being it was the Principle and not just a teacher it's all legal.
I guess we will see if/when this goes to court... but I doubt that the district will be able to prove reasonable suspicion sufficient for the forcible collection of bodily fluids. Schools actually do not have unlimited legal power and enforcing rules is actually not the same as search and seizure... Especially of bodily fluids that have repeatedly been found to require a higher legal standard.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:58 PM
Status: "Not hardly" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
28,408 posts, read 34,400,038 times
Reputation: 34578
Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
I guess we will see if/when this goes to court... but I doubt that the district will be able to prove reasonable suspicion sufficient for the forcible collection of bodily fluids. Schools actually do not have unlimited legal power and enforcing rules is actually not the same as search and seizure... Especially of bodily fluids that have repeatedly been found to require a higher legal standard.
No one was held down and had blood forcibly taken. The parents were notified, the students had time certain to get tested. If not they would be suspended. That's pretty much SOP embodied in a lot of school discipline policies.

We had students not receive their diplomas at graduation, or walk in it, for papering the school as a Senior prank. We also had the Homecoming Dance cancelled one year because two girls got into a fight during first period the day before, a Friday. That day's pep rally was also cancelled.

Y'all wanted zero tolerance and no administrative discretion. Well you got it.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Denver area
20,342 posts, read 20,367,669 times
Reputation: 31753
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
No one was held down and had blood forcibly taken. The parents were notified, the students had time certain to get tested. If not they would be suspended. That's pretty much SOP embodied in a lot of school discipline policies.

We had students not receive their diplomas at graduation, or walk in it, for papering the school as a Senior prank. We also had the Homecoming Dance cancelled one year because two girls got into a fight during first period the day before, a Friday. That day's pep rally was also cancelled.

Y'all wanted zero tolerance and no administrative discretion. Well you got it.
Both of those examples you (presumably) knew the kids involved. The current example is entirely speculation - there was no reason to suspect a specific student so a blood test was requestec of everyone there. Being there is not enough of a reason to demand that test.

Last edited by maciesmom; 09-13-2017 at 09:45 PM..
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:12 PM
 
545 posts, read 231,379 times
Reputation: 1140
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
No one was held down and had blood forcibly taken. The parents were notified, the students had time certain to get tested. If not they would be suspended. That's pretty much SOP embodied in a lot of school discipline policies.

We had students not receive their diplomas at graduation, or walk in it, for papering the school as a Senior prank. We also had the Homecoming Dance cancelled one year because two girls got into a fight during first period the day before, a Friday. That day's pep rally was also cancelled.

Y'all wanted zero tolerance and no administrative discretion. Well you got it.
None of the examples you are giving are 4th amendment issues. I don't know how you don't see that.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:19 PM
 
202 posts, read 58,739 times
Reputation: 240
"Reasonable suspicion" would be breathalyzing students who smelled like beer, were seen in possession of beer, or who were acting drunk. Blood tests and accusing all 75 students goes way beyond "reasonable suspicion".
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