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Old 09-09-2017, 11:45 PM
 
192 posts, read 50,980 times
Reputation: 236

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Dozens of NJ High School Students Ordered to Get Blood, Urine Tests After Beer Can Flies From Bleachers at Football Game - NBC New York

I can't believe none of the students or the parents threatened to sue the school or said, "We'd rather get suspended than blood-tested."
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Montrose, CO
148 posts, read 35,246 times
Reputation: 508
4th Amendment violation? Sue them.
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Old 09-10-2017, 06:33 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
28,011 posts, read 33,718,061 times
Reputation: 33916
We used to make kids take a breathalyzer prior to entering the Prom and Homecoming Dance. Security also patted them down. No lawsuits, no threats of lawsuits. Actually it was the parents' idea.

Students do not necessarily have 4th Amendment rights while at school, at school functions or while at activities sponsored by the school.

Veronica School District v. Acton probably covers this one, it deals with drug testing. If not, TLO v. New Jersey would.

Last edited by North Beach Person; 09-10-2017 at 06:41 AM..
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Old 09-10-2017, 06:55 AM
 
4,044 posts, read 1,896,310 times
Reputation: 9832
My view: Principal should be fired immediately and made to pay restitution out their own pocket. I know that won't happen, but I am so sick of all this zero tolerance, prove you're innocent stuff from schools. They can destroy a kid's future with a stroke of a pen and no repercussions for being wrong. What a contrast with the Utah case where the nurse is a national hero for refusing a blood test without consent or court order.


And don't try to pretend they had consent. Consent was extorted by the nature of the "refusal to take the blood test is assumed positive and get kicked out of school." That isn't consent, that's using the ability of the school to destroy a kid's future to get compliance.


And educators wonder why so many in the public won't support them.
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:11 AM
 
192 posts, read 50,980 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
We used to make kids take a breathalyzer prior to entering the Prom and Homecoming Dance. Security also patted them down. No lawsuits, no threats of lawsuits. Actually it was the parents' idea.

Students do not necessarily have 4th Amendment rights while at school, at school functions or while at activities sponsored by the school.

Veronica School District v. Acton probably covers this one, it deals with drug testing. If not, TLO v. New Jersey would.
Requiring someone to go through a security procedure if they want to enter a place isn't comparable to using academic threats to make already-present students submit to testing and denying them the choice to simply leave the event if they don't want to be tested. One's a requirement for entry while the other is punishment for presence. Also, breathalyzers and pat-downs aren't the same as sticking a needle in someone's arm.

Veronica deals with requirements for joining a sports team (see above for why that's different) and TLO deals with searching possessions of an individual suspected of drug possession, not sticking needles in a group of people just because they were at a football game.
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:18 AM
Status: "Trump's worst is still better than Hill's best!" (set 18 hours ago)
 
Location: Kansas
17,886 posts, read 11,673,100 times
Reputation: 16810
I was always told my son when something at school didn't seem right, and this was from the time he was in elementary school, do what he thought was right, and I would deal with the school. That works when one can trust their child. He was always very mature and independent. He is now 40 years old and has done very well for himself.
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:20 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
28,011 posts, read 33,718,061 times
Reputation: 33916
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguitar77111 View Post
Requiring someone to go through a security procedure if they want to enter a place isn't comparable to using academic threats to make already-present students submit to testing and denying them the choice to simply leave the event if they don't want to be tested. One's a requirement for entry while the other is punishment for presence. Also, breathalyzers and pat-downs aren't the same as sticking a needle in someone's arm.

Veronica deals with requirements for joining a sports team (see above for why that's different) and TLO deals with searching possessions of an individual suspected of drug possession, not sticking needles in a group of people just because they were at a football game.
Another linear thinker. Veronica dealt with sports teams but has been applied to all school activities, as has TLO.
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:21 AM
 
13,690 posts, read 13,531,331 times
Reputation: 18378
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
My view: Principal should be fired immediately and made to pay restitution out their own pocket. I know that won't happen, but I am so sick of all this zero tolerance, prove you're innocent stuff from schools. They can destroy a kid's future with a stroke of a pen and no repercussions for being wrong. What a contrast with the Utah case where the nurse is a national hero for refusing a blood test without consent or court order.


And don't try to pretend they had consent. Consent was extorted by the nature of the "refusal to take the blood test is assumed positive and get kicked out of school." That isn't consent, that's using the ability of the school to destroy a kid's future to get compliance.


And educators wonder why so many in the public won't support them.

Quote:
Wubbels explained to Payne that, if he wanted the blood, he needed either an electronic warrant, patient consent, or declare an intent to arrest the patient.
The cop was in the wrong. He tried to bully his way. I don't think the cop should be fired but training is needed. Too many cops assume a badge gives them permission to do as they please.

As for the kids at the game, imo it's a school sponsored event so the school rules apply. Don't like the rules? Don't go to the game.
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:40 AM
 
1,648 posts, read 856,726 times
Reputation: 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
The cop was in the wrong. He tried to bully his way. I don't think the cop should be fired but training is needed. Too many cops assume a badge gives them permission to do as they please.

As for the kids at the game, imo it's a school sponsored event so the school rules apply. Don't like the rules? Don't go to the game.
What about the 'rules' (aka laws) that prevent assault and battery and coercion? That principal should be arrested, never mind fired.
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Old 09-10-2017, 09:49 AM
 
498 posts, read 199,731 times
Reputation: 967
This is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment.
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