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"NPR and WAMU looked into the seniors who graduated from Ballou High School in 2017, a school located in a poverty stricken area of the nation’s capital, to see how much school the graduating students missed. Ballou High School was previously heavily praised for all students in its senior class getting into college. Almost half of the graduates had unexcused absences that totaled to more than three months of missed school, documents obtained by NPR and WAMU reveal. About 20 percent of the high school graduates were absent more times than they were present for classes, emails and records also show."
The school policy says if you miss more than 30 classes you fail the class, yet all of their seniors graduated. Plus, at one point only 3 percent of students met reading standards at this school.
What happens to these high school graduates after they flunk out of college? I've seen statistics of the college drop out rates but not much reporting on what happens to the students after they drop out of college.
What happens to these high school graduates after they flunk out of college?
What makes you think they'll flunk out of taxpayer-funded, tuition-free community college where they'll major in Minority Studies? Seems to me that all they have to do is show up -- I mean -- register for classes.
What makes you think they'll flunk out of taxpayer-funded, tuition-free community college where they'll major in Minority Studies? Seems to me that all they have to do is show up -- I mean -- register for classes.
I don't think they will. They'll be placed in remedial noncredit classes and then they'll drop out. Then what happens to them?
This is why grade inflation and disregarding truancy rules, which will make the high school look good on paper but does nothing for the kid except temporarily raise their self-esteem, is terrible. The researchers should follow up on these students to find out what happened to them in two years and in 4 years.
What makes you think they'll flunk out of taxpayer-funded, tuition-free community college where they'll major in Minority Studies? Seems to me that all they have to do is show up -- I mean -- register for classes.
Not that many people major in minority studies (or gender studies). A lot of colleges don't even offer those majors. Those types of degrees are among the least popular in the U.S. Considering that well under than 10,000 people graduate with these degrees each year (compared to a few hundred thousand in business), I don't know why they're always brought. Their popularity is grossly exaggerated, so it appears that these degrees are only brought up to insult women and minorities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC
I don't think they will. They'll be placed in remedial noncredit classes and then they'll drop out. Then what happens to them?
This is why grade inflation and disregarding truancy rules, which will make the high school look good on paper but does nothing for the kid except temporarily raise their self-esteem, is terrible. The researchers should follow up on these students to find out what happened to them in two years and in 4 years.
As someone who has taught college courses to primarily economically disadvantaged minorities, this is usually what happens. They aren't registering for minority studies courses in any significant number and being given degrees without doing anything. Most schools are not like UNC, and CC students are typically not coddled athletes.
They usually score poorly on placement exams, are scheduled for at least a year of remedial courses, and they drop out. Some of them will go on to expensive, for-profit colleges and take on student loan debt that can't be discharged in bankruptcy. A disproportionate number of economically disadvantaged minorities attend for-profit colleges, and these schools are among the least likely to even offer minority studies programs.
You have conflated several different problems which are not all the same issues.
Truancy isn't really the problem. If you look at the public academies/magnets many of them also have larger truancy rates than traditional schools. There is no benefit to flunking kids out of high school due to missing classes.
Now, if students are not meeting standards that is a different issue. One of the abbott districts near me has had great success giving students tools to allow them to make up what is missed in class at home. Flipped classroom models, online hybrid classes, etc. The reality is kids in low SES areas are going to miss more school due to circumstances out of their control. We need to give them tools to help them meet standards despite this.
If you think the outlook for a student who drops out of college is bad you should see what the outlook is for students who are flunked out of high school.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
You have conflated several different problems which are not all the same issues.
Truancy isn't really the problem. If you look at the public academies/magnets many of them also have larger truancy rates than traditional schools. There is no benefit to flunking kids out of high school due to missing classes.
Now, if students are not meeting standards that is a different issue. One of the abbott districts near me has had great success giving students tools to allow them to make up what is missed in class at home. Flipped classroom models, online hybrid classes, etc. The reality is kids in low SES areas are going to miss more school due to circumstances out of their control. We need to give them tools to help them meet standards despite this.
If you think the outlook for a student who drops out of college is bad you should see what the outlook is for students who are flunked out of high school.
In theory, I understand what you're saying. I went to school with a few kids who were truant and still maintained passing grades. So truancy alone shouldn't keep a student from graduating.
That's not a large number of students, though, who are truant and still meet very minimal standards.
In theory, I understand what you're saying. I went to school with a few kids who were truant and still maintained passing grades. So truancy alone shouldn't keep a student from graduating.
I agree. School is just one delivery method for life skills and knowledge, although it might be the easiest delivery method available to society. Especially in this day and age, when "school" has become a little more than a poetic term for a liberal indoctrination center.
"NPR and WAMU looked into the seniors who graduated from Ballou High School in 2017, a school located in a poverty stricken area of the nation’s capital, to see how much school the graduating students missed. Ballou High School was previously heavily praised for all students in its senior class getting into college. Almost half of the graduates had unexcused absences that totaled to more than three months of missed school, documents obtained by NPR and WAMU reveal. About 20 percent of the high school graduates were absent more times than they were present for classes, emails and records also show."
The school policy says if you miss more than 30 classes you fail the class, yet all of their seniors graduated. Plus, at one point only 3 percent of students met reading standards at this school.
What happens to these high school graduates after they flunk out of college? I've seen statistics of the college drop out rates but not much reporting on what happens to the students after they drop out of college.
THAT is not a statistic that is tied back to the high school so no one cares. It's all about graduation rates.
To get all students into college all you have to do is have them apply to a community college that takes anyone.
FTR, it actually makes sense to graduate kids because the stigma of not graduating is too high and costly. Without a diploma many jobs are out of reach and raises and promotions can be out of reach in other jobs. If a student has learned all they ever will in high school is it fair to make them repeat classes when you know the result will be the same?
I agree. School is just one delivery method for life skills and knowledge, although it might be the easiest delivery method available to society. Especially in this day and age, when "school" has become a little more than a poetic term for a liberal indoctrination center.
What "school" teaches is that it's the government's obligation to "educate" you and your obligation to receive that "education". Naturally, those who are taught these two things become Bernie Sanders supporters.
...
FTR, it actually makes sense to graduate kids because the stigma of not graduating is too high and costly. Without a diploma many jobs are out of reach and raises and promotions can be out of reach in other jobs. If a student has learned all they ever will in high school is it fair to make them repeat classes when you know the result will be the same?
What that does is devalue the whole idea of a high school diploma because under those conditions it no longer means anything. Yes it is fair to not graduate a kid who cannot do the work. Turn your question around the other way: If a student has worked hard and exceled to earn that high school diploma is it fair to them to just give the diploma to someone who can't even do the minimum level work? It's completely devalued, degraded, and disrespected the work put in by the student who exceled.
In a race someone comes in first and someone comes in last. Under the conditions above that would be considered unfair and the loser given the same reward as the winner. We have no problem separating and even celebrating athletic differences. Some kids will make millions in the pros. Most won't.
The diploma has to mean something or there's no reason to have it.
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