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And we are back to the notion that what is "useful" is 100% subjective.
Yes, it is subjective. But what I sometimes had to remind parents was that it wasn't just a teacher who made decisions about what was in the curriculum. It was groups of teachers in the system (often with parent input), groups of educators at the state level, groups of educators around the nation working together, think tanks providing input, and all leading up to what is useful from both a practical sense, and a cultural literacy sense.
To go back to previous post, yes, it is important in United States history to know what affect the invention of the cotton gin had on the economy of the South, the slave trade, and so forth. The fact that some little particle of knowledge makes you remember that it was Eli Whitney hardly burdens anyone's brain to the point of bursting.
I've served on curriculum committees, textbook selection committees, and guess who was involved...parents. But this forum -- sometimes fortunately -- provides a setting for people to itch and moan, but who never lift a finger to actually get involved in education through school board election and parent committees. Talk, talk, talk is cheap. But action means you care enough to put forth a little effort. I see little of that here.
Do you know how much research there is out there on teaching and learning? Millions of papers. How many have you read? How much do you know about the different learning styles? Scaffolding of learning? How the brain develops and what is most appropriate based on that development by age? Do you know at which stage to move from one level of blooms taxonomy to another in each unit of each class? Do you know which signs indicated a class is ready to move from formative to summative assessment of objectives?
Not for nothing, what may not be a good method for you maybe great for another. Do you know which kids in your classes had IEPs? What those IEPs entailed?
So the notion that YOU know what is or is not a "questionable method" is laughable.
I have no need for understanding the impact of the cotton gin on society or history. It is literally USELESS to me.
Why is being able to calculate interest on debt more important than being able to find a debt calculator and use it?
The reality is there is are three main skills students need. How to memorize information, how to find information they have not memorized, and how to evaluate information. What you use to teach those skills is irrelevant.
Yes, this is another thing that most students and parents never understand. There is some knowledge that is key to life, but most knowledge in school is used as a tool.
I agree with you. Sadly, in NY, none of this is required to get into college. These are all generally useful skills on a day-to-day, or at least monthly, basis.
...and this is the result of an education that teaches no daily living skills. So knowing how to cook, use a hammer or pliers, spend less money than you make, or what insurance does ...is useless?! Many can correctly argue that YOU, may in fact, be the useless one.
People tell me I'm a fantastic cook. Never took a course in cooking in school. Never was taught to cook by my parents. I learned it on my own by reading, by doing, by experimenting, by watching videos.
You want to teach things like tax code? Why? It changes almost every year.
This just reinforces how poorly we teach important material in schools. You believe you have no need to understand the impact of the cotton gin, because you weren't taught why that is important. Too much to go into here, but the one of it's impacts leads to some of the major societal issues we are still dealing with today. You may not understand it, but it impacts your life, and mine, and everyone living in the US today.
Calculating interest on debt isn't just a mathematical skill or tool to grab a calculator for. It's about understanding what debt means. The number of people who don't understand that is staggering. The debt load and easy credit is another issue impacting people everywhere, of all walks of life.
I was eating lunch when I read this one and almost spit my tea. Elementary reading is about learning to like reading? As for literature teaching you to understand the written word and critical thinking, mostly what it taught was to understand what the teacher wanted to hear and provide that back because any truly critical analysis of the chosen book would cost you a grade if you didn't match their point of view.
All of this boils down to that you think your opinion of what is useful is the only one that matters. You opinion of the cotton gin can be said for a whole variety of science issues as well that you likely know very little about. But because you are unfamiliar with them you see no need for them in your life. The only way this is untrue is if you believe you know and understand every single thing of import related to society. I mean the amount of people who don’t actually understand the scientific method and the direct effect that has on scientific literacy and issues like confirmation bias prevalent through out our political system is staggering. Yet I am not pretending I should decide for every single student what is going to be useful for them to learn.
Yes, of course elementary reading is about learning to like reading. Where do you think programs like “drop everything and read†came from? Or the points systems where kids choose literally any book to read?
No, I already knew them by the time I got to high school. Because who are the most important teachers a child has? Parents. Schools are not meant to teach children "daily living skills", parents are. And for those students whose parents won't or can't teach those skills, that is why we have electives. Can't cook? Take home EC. But for those who already know how, taking home EC let them take a different elective. Same for the rest.
Based on that logic, parents should also be teaching their kids calculus and chemistry, so maybe we don't need schools or teachers anymore, and it should all be the parents' responsibility.
Memorization is not the same thing as short term memory. Maybe you should spend a little bit of time learning some of these things.
Correct, you cannot teach memory, it is a biological function. You can teach the skill of memorizing.
A simple analogy, you have muscles (biological), training (learning) in a gym can give you technique (skills) on how to use those muscles which will improve the efficacy of their use.
Now you are just arguing semantics.
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This is a complex subject, one I have spent years of my life learning. You seem to expect a internet forum to be able to synthesize years worth of research into something you can absorb in 5 posts? No wonder you think teachers aren't any good, your expectations are ridiculous.
You are always asking why does nobody respect teachers. Perhaps you attacking everybody who is not a teacher, and defending everybody who is a teacher is part of the problem, since it creates a hostile us vs them attitude.
This just reinforces how poorly we teach important material in schools. You believe you have no need to understand the impact of the cotton gin, because you weren't taught why that is important. Too much to go into here, but the one of it's impacts leads to some of the major societal issues we are still dealing with today. You may not understand it, but it impacts your life, and mine, and everyone living in the US today.
Exactly!
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Calculating interest on debt isn't just a mathematical skill or tool to grab a calculator for. It's about understanding what debt means. The number of people who don't understand that is staggering. The debt load and easy credit is another issue impacting people everywhere, of all walks of life.
The problem is, the EDU cheerleaders want people to not understand debt, so that people keep taking out student loans for useless degrees, so that colleges can keep overcharging tuition, overpaying employees. Plus, it creates a generation of doormats that are completely beholden to their employers so that they can pay off their student loan debt. Certain posters hate me, because I expose the truth about education.
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I was eating lunch when I read this one and almost spit my tea. Elementary reading is about learning to like reading? As for literature teaching you to understand the written word and critical thinking, mostly what it taught was to understand what the teacher wanted to hear and provide that back because any truly critical analysis of the chosen book would cost you a grade if you didn't match their point of view.
That was exactly my experience too.
Also, even if one argues that elementary school reading is about learning to love reading, while middle and high school literature is to teach us about certain books, whether we like them or not, don't people realize that forcing people to read books that they aren't interested in and on somebody else's terms is going to ruin that love of reading, and instead teach a hatred toward reading?
All that stupid, useless trivia that is there because it is easy to grade - especially by computer. Teacher's unions (which should not exist because it is not a union when both parties "negotiate" to maximize their income while sending the bill to the taxpayer), prevent ANY improvement in education by taking the easy path & following textbooks written by idiots with connections (while getting paid as if it's a full time career), excluding 2nd career teachers & participating in making schools just brainwashing establishments for power-mad Progressive politicians.
That was exactly the experience that I had in school. A lot of ScanTron tests that were written decades ago and were never updated. It would still somehow take teachers weeks to grade them.
Think? I know the answer. Or rather what is acceptable for a regular ed middle/high school US History class. The answer for an AP class would be more detailed and require more examples to support the answer.
I don't remember putting the question on your test today.
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Last edited by CypressHeat; 10-12-2018 at 12:24 PM..
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