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Old 09-26-2018, 09:00 AM
 
35,508 posts, read 17,721,198 times
Reputation: 50484

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree View Post
Seriously, if a kid doesn't turn in an assignment they're going to turn in all the others with excellent work?

More likely, they would get 50, 60, and 70 or a D not C.

And when did schools stop teaching responsibility and punctuality? Why not make them repeat the grade if they fail? Or would that be too hard on their self esteem?

I say this teacher should receive kudos for revealing a failed school system in this country, one which requires an ever higher percentage of kids to take remedial courses before entering college.
Repeating grades works fairly well for K or 1st graders, who might need a little time to mature.

Once you get beyond 3rd grade, not promoting a student begins, statistically, to have disastrous consequences. And then in the upper grades - middle school and beyond - not promoting a child will create a drop out who will unlikely be able to support himself. And that's the problem.

Public education isn't like Girl Scouts or a job at the mall, where if the kid doesn't show up and doesn't do good work and complete badges or tasks, you can say you know, this really isn't for you, we're dropping you from this.

The goal is to create independent, productive young adults. The goal isn't primarily to punish those who are falling behind. Colleges do that - you fail, bye. Public schools are tasked with sticking with it and finding a way to educate the kids.
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Old 09-26-2018, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,238 posts, read 23,861,466 times
Reputation: 32603
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Because the two goals are completely different.

One goal is to re-roof your house for a fair market price.

The other is to educate the children in the community and prepare them to be successful in the marketplace of jobs so that they can support themselves without assistance, and will be the future workforce the community needs.

That's why, when you have roofers who don't show up or work really slowly or do a bad job, you fire them.

And that's why when you have a child in school who keeps failing assignments/not turning them in, you don't say well, this isn't working out, don't come back. You say keep coming back, and keep trying, and we'll give you extra tutoring and do-overs until you can master the material and pass the EOC (end of course exam).
I know this is going to confuse you. But I understand understand the concept. I don't agree with it.

I don't have a problem to give a student a D if, on an assignment or on an exam, a student gets an F...as long as they made an honest effort to complete the assignment or do the exam.

I do have a problem giving a student credit for doing work he/she didn't do at all.

And just so you know...when I was teaching, it was rare for a student to fail my class. My pass rate was over 95%.

I know there are snowflakes that don't believe anyone should ever fail, but failure is part of life, and adults face various types of failure their whole lives. Failed jobs. Failed marriages. Failed relationships with their children. Failed health exams.

I could list dozens of articles that advocate letting children fail occasionally. But you can Google it yourself: Should children fail.

But going back to your last paragraph: You just explained why failing a child is the right thing to do. Because extra help after school was available three days a week. Because they could redo every assignment for the first 8 weeks of class...as many times as they wanted to. If you failed my class, you had to have tried to fail.

There has to be a consequence for the attitude of: I just don't give a ****.
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Old 09-26-2018, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman, NC
8,875 posts, read 13,847,187 times
Reputation: 35985
I can see giving a minimum grade of 50 IF the student turned in the work and it was just not "up to snuff". I think they should get a 0 for anything that was not turned in at all.

Either way, I think the policy is not good, but the teacher should not have taken it upon herself to buck the system and give the zero's. She deserved what she got.
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Old 09-26-2018, 10:08 AM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,173,073 times
Reputation: 2458
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I think we understand part of what you're saying.

But why should get 50% credit for doing 0% work.
When you hire a person to do a job at your house, do you pay them 50% of the agreed upon pay even if they do no work?
I don't think it's a good lesson in life.
Because they are not adults and don't make adult decisions.
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Old 09-26-2018, 10:10 AM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,173,073 times
Reputation: 2458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree View Post
Seriously, if a kid doesn't turn in an assignment they're going to turn in all the others with excellent work?

More likely, they would get 50, 60, and 70 or a D not C.

And when did schools stop teaching responsibility and punctuality? Why not make them repeat the grade if they fail? Or would that be too hard on their self esteem?

I say this teacher should receive kudos for revealing a failed school system in this country, one which requires an ever higher percentage of kids to take remedial courses before entering college.
Right, because a child who makes a 50% will have such a bright future. Every college will be knocking at the door.
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Old 09-26-2018, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
13,639 posts, read 12,276,107 times
Reputation: 20058
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I think we understand part of what you're saying.

But why should get 50% credit for doing 0% work.
When you hire a person to do a job at your house, do you pay them 50% of the agreed upon pay even if they do no work?
I don't think it's a good lesson in life.
Your missing the point.

An F is an F. An A is an A. whether you get a 93 or a 97 makes no difference according to the transcript, etc...It might on a standardized test, but this isn't a standardized test.

The only concern would be a bright underachiever, that did the minimum for a D or a C, and skipped half the semester and aced the other half. But I don't think that's the case very often.

This teacher has taught for 17 years at the school, and as far as the article says, this isn't a "new" rule, and I don't think this is the first time she's entered zero's for missing work or the first time she's had students not turn in assignments.

It has to be some new interpretation or enforcement policy, or they were out to get her.

As I understand it, If the class was graded on four assignments, and a student got 100% on three and skipped number 4, their overall grade would be a 75 and not a 90.
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Old 09-26-2018, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,238 posts, read 23,861,466 times
Reputation: 32603
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
Your missing the point.

An F is an F. An A is an A. whether you get a 93 or a 97 makes no difference according to the transcript, etc...It might on a standardized test, but this isn't a standardized test.

The only concern would be a bright underachiever, that did the minimum for a D or a C, and skipped half the semester and aced the other half. But I don't think that's the case very often.

This teacher has taught for 17 years at the school, and as far as the article says, this isn't a "new" rule, and I don't think this is the first time she's entered zero's for missing work or the first time she's had students not turn in assignments.

It has to be some new interpretation or enforcement policy, or they were out to get her.

As I understand it, If the class was graded on four assignments, and a student got 100% on three and skipped number 4, their overall grade would be a 75 and not a 90.
I'm not missing the point at all. I'm disagreeing with the point.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:10 PM
 
4,355 posts, read 4,197,231 times
Reputation: 5786
I'm in a district with this policy. I have seen cases where students show up at school after having a fifty for the first three terms due to absences and finagle the 95% they need to "earn" a passing grade in the course. Combine that with teachers who give passing grades to such students whether they attend or not, either intentionally or inadvertently, add in credit recovery online courses, and an unfortunate number of students receive diplomas that I see as fraudulent. I do my part and stay in my lane, but these kinds of policies chafe at my sense of professional integrity.

I understand the policy, and my classroom practices reflect that. My philosophy is that you shouldn't fail while you're learning, so all daily work grades bottom out at 60 if attempted. Work not attempted receives a zero. Test grades are another story. To protect their grades, if they attempt a test, the lowest grade I record is a 20. Absence students receive a zero, lack of an attempt in class earns 01, and cheating earns 02. These are codes that I use to help me remember the circumstances of a test grade when meeting with parents.

I think the best practice includes a balance between the district's desire to minimize having to extend a student's schooling due to failures and simultaneously needing to keep the graduation rate rising for state ratings and the teachers' desires to impose standards on the students' classroom performance. We just haven't found that balance yet.
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Old 09-26-2018, 08:09 PM
 
Location: 53179
14,416 posts, read 22,382,713 times
Reputation: 14461
Quote:
Originally Posted by aridon View Post
https://cbs12.com/news/local/teacher...-in-their-work

Basically the lowest grade you can get for anything is a 50, even if you never turn it in.

I might understand a healthy curve for students that attempt the work and maybe not get it. Not turning in anything and still getting half credit seems way over the top.

I'm curious what folks think of this and if your district does this.

Policy like this would greatly impact grades, especially in poorly performing areas but the increase is artificial bull****. This isn't grading on a curve, it's academic welfare.
CPS is like this. Chicago Public Schools.
I mean, if you don't try at all, or even turn it in, no you don't deserve anything.
But like you say, if you have a hard time and just don't get it...im ok with it.
In the end, 50 is still a fail. My son has been in CPS since 2012. I'm a very involved parent. I sit with my kids everyday. CPS is not known for being great, so a lot of effort is needed from the parents if your kids are struggling.
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Old 09-26-2018, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,414,606 times
Reputation: 14692
My last principal wanted us to use 59% as the lowest grade even if the students turned nothing in. 59.5% rounded up to passing. This is one of the things I had issues with that led to my leaving teaching.
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