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Old 11-15-2018, 09:08 PM
 
9,694 posts, read 7,344,023 times
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brainwashing students into patriotism or indoctrinating them to grow up expecting to work in the capitalist wage society

so if you dont live in a capitalist society, how do you earn money to put food on the table?
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:48 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
23,899 posts, read 32,210,946 times
Reputation: 67826
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
"...and if the student finds that this is not to his taste? Well, that is regrettable. Most regrettable. The student's taste should not be consulted; it is being formed."

-Flannery O'Connor
O'Connor is one of my favorite authors. To my knowledge, she was not an educator of any sort. I think she was most likely referencing students who avoid subjects that they don't see as "practical" "useful" or that lead to direct employment.

Only trade schools do that.

I am very much in favor of education that permits the student to select the subjects that interest them, as opposed to forcing students to study subjects that they hate.

Beyond elementary school, there should be choice.
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,376,626 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by rugrats2001 View Post
[/color]

Wow. Both of these Wikipedia pages are just chock full of meaningless buzzwords seemingly strung together by a pseudo-language generator.

This so-called “Democratic Education” sounds great in a world where no skills or knowledge are required to survive & thrive, there is no knowledge worth passing on, and all progress has been not only halted but demonized. This is some next level “Lord of the Flies” stuff.

I’m sure there is a huge list of technological, medical, and economic discoveries that the Zapatistas have developed for the people’s of the world. I guess that you haven’t written that Wikipedia page yet.
Rugrats, the Zapatistas are building new hospitals everyday.

Furthermore advancements come from networking between education centers, no capitalism. If more societies were like the Zapatistas new technology and more capital would be used in an egalitarian method, not a corporate one.
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,376,626 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
O'Connor is one of my favorite authors. To my knowledge, she was not an educator of any sort. I think she was most likely referencing students who avoid subjects that they don't see as "practical" "useful" or that lead to direct employment.

Only trade schools do that.

I am very much in favor of education that permits the student to select the subjects that interest them, as opposed to forcing students to study subjects that they hate.

Beyond elementary school, there should be choice.
Yes, but in elementary the discussion must be led by the students and the set curriculum needs to be agreed upon by the student body. That is how you break the authoritarian education model.

Kids want to learn if you don’t force them.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 11-20-2018 at 10:37 AM.. Reason: fixed typos
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:56 AM
 
Location: North Dakota
10,265 posts, read 13,785,826 times
Reputation: 18085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I'm an anarcho-syndicalist or anarchist-communist (which ever you prefer).

One of the principles of this libertarian socialist movement is democratic schools like those seen in anarchist Manchuria and more recently in the Zapatista territories of Mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_...Municipalities

Just to look at the examples the Zapatistas have set, each autonomous community will have schools built either individually or with the help of a larger federation so it won't be a charter school or a for-profit school. The function is where we get to the interesting part...

As this can be imagined in today's society with public schools, that is why I bring the discussion forward:

The community and the student body will set the curriculum for a given class year (even in the lower classes) and work won't be valued by grades, but voluntary participation.

That way ranking and grade pressure won't affect choices while the cynical minds of the state/school management won't have a monopoly on what creative students want to learn. Of course the basics would be pressured by the community, but how these classes are taught would be interesting. It won't be a matter of brainwashing students into patriotism or indoctrinating them to grow up expecting to work in the capitalist wage society, but allowing a more free society based off of free thought and creativity to lead the future.

So who's with me?
What the hell did I just read?
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Old 11-16-2018, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,270,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
as a conservative, I say yes, but what i mean, I support liberal education, might be different from democratic. I believe in education you should be taught everything, and then decide on your own.
That is within reason>Taught 2 sides to every story yes, taught too much is another. There is only so much the educational system can teach a child. the rest comes from home and from experiencing life.

winterfall: no elementary child should have any say so over the educational system or what they choose to learn, certainly not the student body making the decision. Give me a break!!!!!
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,376,626 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
That is within reason>Taught 2 sides to every story yes, taught too much is another. There is only so much the educational system can teach a child. the rest comes from home and from experiencing life.

winterfall: no elementary child should have any say so over the educational system or what they choose to learn, certainly not the student body making the decision. Give me a break!!!!!
Why, they won’t be teaching the class, just leading the discussion. Current day education standards are built to make children obedient and to hate education.

In a real free society based on natural law, children have the desire and the capacity to learn, now if state and corporate powers did not want it stifled the world could be a much better place.
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,793 posts, read 5,635,505 times
Reputation: 5661
If i allowed my son (14) to create his own curriculum it would look something like this:

period 1: gaming skills 1.0
period 2: Overwatch
period 3: Overwatch 2
LUNCH
period 4: Mindcraft
period 5: Fallout 4
period 6: gaming accessories 2.0

just sayin..
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:07 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,099,379 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I'm an anarcho-syndicalist or anarchist-communist (which ever you prefer).

One of the principles of this libertarian socialist movement is democratic schools like those seen in anarchist Manchuria and more recently in the Zapatista territories of Mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_...Municipalities

Just to look at the examples the Zapatistas have set, each autonomous community will have schools built either individually or with the help of a larger federation so it won't be a charter school or a for-profit school. The function is where we get to the interesting part...

As this can be imagined in today's society with public schools, that is why I bring the discussion forward:

The community and the student body will set the curriculum for a given class year (even in the lower classes) and work won't be valued by grades, but voluntary participation.

That way ranking and grade pressure won't affect choices while the cynical minds of the state/school management won't have a monopoly on what creative students want to learn. Of course the basics would be pressured by the community, but how these classes are taught would be interesting. It won't be a matter of brainwashing students into patriotism or indoctrinating them to grow up expecting to work in the capitalist wage society, but allowing a more free society based off of free thought and creativity to lead the future.

So who's with me?
Where were you 30 years ago when I was pushing for this?

Just like economic change, it will never happen cause the people are too comfortable in their structured lives.

removed copyrighted image

https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robins...pt?language=en

Last edited by toobusytoday; 11-20-2018 at 10:38 AM..
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,376,626 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
If i allowed my son (14) to create his own curriculum it would look something like this:

period 1: gaming skills 1.0
period 2: Overwatch
period 3: Overwatch 2
LUNCH
period 4: Mindcraft
period 5: Fallout 4
period 6: gaming accessories 2.0

just sayin..
That has little to do with what I’m saying, if anything it backs it up more.

Students agree on certain curriculums, they don’t make them up as there has to be a teacher for the class. Furthermore your point exasperates what I’m saying.

Young kids (not teenagers) want to learn, and if they are taught that education is about obedience they’ll learn to hate. Then at 14 like your son they find education as a chore rather than a voluntary activity.

Naturally it makes no sense, and it’s used by established powers to create an obedient population and a wage working class.
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