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I am a huge supporter of education in all it's forms. So much so that I took my son to several colleges over the summer and he won't even be applying for three more years. I wanted him to get excited about the possibilities for his life and motivate him to do well in high school.
Just because I think there are positions out there that should not require a 4 year degree to get in the door does not mean I devalue the whole of education. Good grief. Stop with the binary thinking, please. We have enough of that in today's world. One would think, on an education forum, we could discuss the subtleties of our arguments without devolving into baseless assumptions of others views.
That's your problem. If someone doesn't agree with you, they are using binary thinking...or whatever your insult of the day is.
And it does not appear to me that just because you say that you value education that you actually do. It seems as if you only see as a way to get something you want. A college education opens all sorts of doors. I can't tell you how many people I know who have not ended up being what they planned to be, and could only go through other doors because they were well-educated.
I've seen tons of unqualified people get jobs in corporate and legal. People with only a high school diploma and even criminal records.
1. Not all companies deal from the perspective of nepotism.
2. Not all nepotism is bad. Sometimes people get hired through nepotism, but have excellent qualifications.
Around 30% do now, and despite what you think but can't document, that number is going up. "The trades" require post secondary education as well, in almost every instance. There is practically nothing one can make a career in with solely a high school diploma.
Sometimes I think many older posters don't realize how much technology has affected occupations that used to require little technical knowledge. I think of a head custodian we used to have at our school who used to do just fine, but today would have a major problem trying to manage HVAC equipment that is computer controlled. I think about a cashier that I saw dissolve into tears because she had no inkling of how to operate the computer...which is exactly what her cash register was. I think about over twenty years ago when the mechanic at the gas station couldn't figure out how to use the computer and fax to send the data to the state saying that my car passed inspection, and thus couldn't print out for me the sticker needed for the windshield. I think of the people I see -- particularly some who are older -- for whom a smart phone is a mountain to climb and who can't program their television. Life isn't what it used to be, and there's no going back.
Because it was decided as so for purposes of profit to push everyone to four year college. Not because it is correct or practical. My old tech company loved to train people from the ground up. You could come in as a temp in the stockroom or data entry and go where ever in the company from there. It seemed to work quite well, as employees were very motivated and loyal to the company that supported them and helped them build real skills and careers.
It worked and created productive enthusiastic employees, so that must be a bad thing in today's workplace.
But here's the potential problem. When you only train from the inside, you only get the same old ideas.
Same one as everyone else here.
I sure wouldn't object to living in a smaller world again though.
Imagine a US with a population of ~250M where nearly everyone is able to support themselves.
We could have it if we choose to.
But most everyone seems bound and determined to pump us up to 500M.
I don't understand this thinking. It can be very difficult depending on a person's circumstances, to get into college, make it through to earn a decent degree, and deal with the debt. Some have parents who are not supportive.
.
It's not their parent's fault. By the time you're 18, you don't need your parents blessing to do what you want. Community college is a lot cheaper and a 2 year degree can be obtained easily for many people. I find most people who didn't attend college at all, just didn't want to make the sacrifices to do so. I do not feel sorry for them. Many of them seem jealous and bitter towards people with degrees, which makes me even less sympathetic.
I don't understand this thinking. It can be very difficult depending on a person's circumstances, to get into college, make it through to earn a decent degree, and deal with the debt. Some have parents who are not supportive.
I think unsympathetic attitudes like yours make challenged young people even more discouraged, so they don't even try.
Difficult how? ANYONE with internet access can apply to a regionally accredited online college with 100% acceptance rate and get a degree. You can now get a high school diploma and GED online too.
Don't insult the intelligence of the American people. I've taken online college courses with single parents, grandmothers, grandfathers, deployed servicemen, 1st and 2nd generational immigrants, non-native English speakers, etc. This is not the 1980's were your only option was brick and mortar.
I didn't need supportive parents. You can't choose what parents you get to have in this world, and they damn sure can't get a degree for you.
I think this apologetic self-victimization like yours makes it challenging for America's underclass to gain the confidence it takes to go back to school, so they don't even try. You believe they're helpless victims in a country with countless opportunities and that mindset is dead wrong.
No politician or legislation will ever uplift you out of poverty faster than a college degree. Ever.
Sometimes I think many older posters don't realize how much technology has affected occupations that used to require little technical knowledge. I think of a head custodian we used to have at our school who used to do just fine, but today would have a major problem trying to manage HVAC equipment that is computer controlled. I think about a cashier that I saw dissolve into tears because she had no inkling of how to operate the computer...which is exactly what her cash register was.
It doesn't take a bachelor's degree to do any of those things.
A young enlisted guy out of the Air Force without a college degree could easily train for any of them.
The thread on whether teachers should keep quite because it might hurt students' futures reminds me of some other threads about teachers shouldn't fail students because it might hurt their future or bullies shouldn't be punished because it might hurt their future.
Then, over in the work forum there is a thread about credential inflation (Bachelors being required for minimal jobs) in the work world and how that is forcing more people to take on debt to get a degree just to qualify for a job.
Those thoughts led me to postulate that credential inflation is a direct result of the devaluing of a high school diploma leading business to require the bachelors instead. Specifically that educators, in worrying so much about the future of those who fail, have actually hurt those students who can do high school work by devaluing their work and causing them to have to pay thousands to get a college degree they would otherwise not have needed.
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