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The thread on whether teachers should keep quite because it might hurt students' futures reminds me of some other threads about teachers shouldn't fail students because it might hurt their future or bullies shouldn't be punished because it might hurt their future.
Then, over in the work forum there is a thread about credential inflation (Bachelors being required for minimal jobs) in the work world and how that is forcing more people to take on debt to get a degree just to qualify for a job.
Those thoughts led me to postulate that credential inflation is a direct result of the devaluing of a high school diploma leading business to require the bachelors instead. Specifically that educators, in worrying so much about the future of those who fail, have actually hurt those students who can do high school work by devaluing their work and causing them to have to pay thousands to get a college degree they would otherwise not have needed.
This was started not because of education level but because of the "Soy-lent Green effect". Meaning they want to keep people from the big money and big positions. So they raise the standards. Big businesses ( like non for profits ) will force people to get bachelors. It is a way to screw people over in the long run.
Like what my father did back then makes $80,000 point blank. Even at work he had to take extra classes ( liability ) . He only has his associates. Now to get his money I have to get a bachelors. Yet he argues he would be making more money ( because they on purposely want a person with a bachelors. However he makes more then $40 per hour.
College is a business and they just want that for qualification. It is like having a drivers license. It is just for show and does not really mean if you can or can not do the job at all. So the company could say "Our professionals" blah blah have this and that.
You have tons of great people doing nothing with there lives at all. IDK why? They just do not have any ability to gain income with their skills. They have great skills. Skills being abused by people who do not even do a great job.
The thread on whether teachers should keep quite because it might hurt students' futures reminds me of some other threads about teachers shouldn't fail students because it might hurt their future or bullies shouldn't be punished because it might hurt their future.
Then, over in the work forum there is a thread about credential inflation (Bachelors being required for minimal jobs) in the work world and how that is forcing more people to take on debt to get a degree just to qualify for a job.
Those thoughts led me to postulate that credential inflation is a direct result of the devaluing of a high school diploma leading business to require the bachelors instead. Specifically that educators, in worrying so much about the future of those who fail, have actually hurt those students who can do high school work by devaluing their work and causing them to have to pay thousands to get a college degree they would otherwise not have needed.
Quick question: what are these "minimal jobs" that now require a BA?
This was started not because of education level but because of the "Soy-lent Green effect". Meaning they want to keep people from the big money and big positions. So they raise the standards. Big businesses ( like non for profits ) will force people to get bachelors. It is a way to screw people over in the long run.
Is there an official definition for "Soylent Green Effect"? I googled around and couldn't find one?
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Like what my father did back then makes $80,000 point blank. Even at work he had to take extra classes ( liability ) . He only has his associates. Now to get his money I have to get a bachelors. Yet he argues he would be making more money ( because they on purposely want a person with a bachelors. However he makes more then $40 per hour.
So you think businesses want their employees to have BA degrees, at the minimum, to stop those who don't from making money?
Which types of businesses are these?
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College is a business and they just want that for qualification. It is like having a drivers license. It is just for show and does not really mean if you can or can not do the job at all. So the company could say "Our professionals" blah blah have this and that.
College is very different than having a drivers license. Even in HS? One does not need to have passed Calc or AP Bio, Physics, Chem., etc...don't even have to pass freshman English or history... to get a DL.
I don't think it would be a good idea if someone with an associates degree in biology (is that a thing?) be the Chief of a Pediatric ICU...just like I don't think that someone who got their associates in "theater" would make a great principal of a school.
It really does mean, in most cases, that you can or can not do the job. Ramp up time is a different animal & usually spent on acclimating a new employee to the existing culture or the minute differences between "old" job and "new" job.
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You have tons of great people doing nothing with there lives at all. IDK why? They just do not have any ability to gain income with their skills. They have great skills. Skills being abused by people who do not even do a great job.
What are these "great skills" being abused by others who "do not even do a great job"?
Insisting that we have a high school graduation rate as close to 100% as possible means we may as well just print high school diplomas at home, because that's how much they're worth... nothing. It's ridiculous.
The fail rate needs to be high enough for a diploma to mean something. Otherwise we're just wasting time and money.
Is there an official definition for "Soylent Green Effect"? I googled around and couldn't find one?
LOL.........there is a literally a committee that is dedicated to keeping the population down. One of those things is preventing people from gaining too much income or non at all. By doing so you create an affect where people will not reproduce as normal or have normal homes or lives. Among other things the population problem also created a number of laws. This was back in the 1960's.
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So you think businesses want their employees to have BA degrees, at the minimum, to stop those who don't from making money?
I believe companies that are non-for-profit and have retirement and insurance plans wants to force people to get ( even a masters one day ) for the same knowledge a person with a high-school diploma has. Like a magazine can hire an illustrator to make their comics but in the end that artist is getting paid with their writing associates........no wait bachelors just to get the big pay. Because that magazine is owned by big companies that expects a return and they have rules to follow. Not like an independent magazine.
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Which types of businesses are these?
If not read non-for-profit organizations. Anything that collects a government dollar or any fund. Anything connected to big companies that falls into those standards. Small private businesses dances around this.
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College is very different than having a drivers license. Even in HS? One does not need to have passed Calc or AP Bio, Physics, Chem., etc...don't even have to pass freshman English or history... to get a DL.
You have jobs you do not need education for. Jobs where you can do trail and error. However you have people that wants the masters/bachelors for the credentials. Almost anything in college could be learned from home with the correct environment. You have people making $100,000 a year and they do not even remember anything from college at all. How to do anything at all. Between when they started and finished nothing is different. College makes you take garbage classes because they want to keep their funding up. Or do not want X department to fail.
[quote] I don't think it would be a good idea if someone with an associates degree in biology (is that a thing?) be the Chief of a Pediatric ICU...just like I don't think that someone who got their associates in "theater" would make a great principal of a school.
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However that is how it is in real life. What more is their to learn. You learn everything you could possible learn. They just kept other classes away from you that you need to get the associates. You do not even need a %@$@# associates.
I'm just trying to understand what you mean.
A college is a business and nothing more. It is not a place of higher education. They do not mean to get you jobs or get you where you want to be. They are just their to make you look better. Like a badge an officer where or a trophy in a room. You will be proud but in reality you have been forced to fill their pockets. [quote=Alonso Gil;53679380]No Child Left Behind = No Child Gets Ahead
That is very true. I mean the only reason I get left behind because my parent ( bread winner ) from day one did not want to fit the bill. Did not want to put me on their insurance. Did not want to send me to private school. Did not want his wife to get her education. Devalued her education efforts. Devalued his marriage. Even devalued his mother and complains about the money to bury her. Wants a relationship with his father and ruins that because he talks of borrowing money. Devalue from moving one place to another.
That is why people are depressed. Many sons usually. Why the daughter is okay? Because chances are they expect her to find a husband and in the workplace they want a pretty face
Insisting that we have a high school graduation rate as close to 100% as possible means we may as well just print high school diplomas at home, because that's how much they're worth... nothing. It's ridiculous.
The fail rate needs to be high enough for a diploma to mean something. Otherwise we're just wasting time and money.
No, you're thinking about it wrong. Twelve years of schooling should prepare any normally intelligent person for whatever additional training is necessary for a worthwhile vocation. After twelve years--unless the school system has identified a specific learning disability--every student should be ready for further training in something.
The problem is that most schools have nothing but a college prep program. Not everyone is cut out for college. Only 30% of people ever get a Bachelor's degree. Moreover, there is actually very little need for a bachelor's degree alone.
This society has an extreme need for technically trained people who know how to run devices, fix devices, and maintain things. This society has a smaller--but definite--need for people who have a professional level extended education and knowledge of how to run industrial, social, and political organizations.
The need for people who have simply sat through soft studies courses for four years is very small. Yet, that's what most high schools are turning out.
Now, here is where the factor you mentioned matters: Only a minority of kids are capable of sitting in a classroom for another four years for a sociology degree. Yet their high school will not prepare them for anything else.
The school, though, can't simply fail 70% of kids and graduate only 30%. So they water down their college prep curriculum to get most kids through it.
And yet, that watered down college prep curriculum isn't sufficient to get most of those who pass it into college, and it doesn't do the best possible job for the college bound kids either.
Twelve freaking years, and they graduate kids who still can't comprehend either Aristotle or a Haynes auto manual.
Back in the 90s, the governor of Hawaii looked at the public high school curriculum of his state and compared it to the industries actually available in his state. He then said, "Our high schools are a waste of time. And the kids know it."
High schools need to let kids sort themselves out into those who really want and have the capability for professional level extended education and knowledge of how to run industrial, social, and political organizations and those who want to know how to run devices, fix devices, and maintain things.
They should sort that out by the eighth grade or so, and then schools should then put them through robust programs for both directions.
No, you're thinking about it wrong. Twelve years of schooling should prepare any normally intelligent person for whatever additional training is necessary for a worthwhile vocation. After twelve years--unless the school system has identified a specific learning disability--every student should be ready for further training in something.
The problem is that most schools have nothing but a college prep program. Not everyone is cut out for college. Only 30% of people ever get a Bachelor's degree. Moreover, there is actually very little need for a bachelor's degree alone.
This society has an extreme need for technically trained people who know how to run devices, fix devices, and maintain things. This society has a smaller--but definite--need for people who have a professional level extended education and knowledge of how to run industrial, social, and political organizations.
The need for people who have simply sat through soft studies courses for four years is very small. Yet, that's what most high schools are turning out.
Now, here is where the factor you mentioned matters: Only a minority of kids are capable of sitting in a classroom for another four years for a sociology degree. Yet their high school will not prepare them for anything else.
The school, though, can't simply fail 70% of kids and graduate only 30%. So they water down their college prep curriculum to get most kids through it.
And yet, that watered down college prep curriculum isn't sufficient to get most of those who pass it into college, and it doesn't do the best possible job for the college bound kids either.
Twelve freaking years, and they graduate kids who still can't comprehend either Aristotle or a Haynes auto manual.
Back in the 90s, the governor of Hawaii looked at the public high school curriculum of his state and compared it to the industries actually available in his state. He then said, "Our high schools are a waste of time. And the kids know it."
High schools need to let kids sort themselves out into those who really want and have the capability for professional level extended education and knowledge of how to run industrial, social, and political organizations and those who want to know how to run devices, fix devices, and maintain things.
They should sort that out by the eighth grade or so, and then schools should then put them through robust programs for both directions.
One can go a vocational/community college for that training. Take some courses or get a certificate or Associates at the local community college for robotics or some in demand specialty then get an entry level job at a company that needs people with that knowledge.
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