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Old 12-15-2018, 09:19 AM
 
11,920 posts, read 6,163,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citylove101 View Post
--And where were the high-level math courses back then? Unless you were in a private or test-entry school, they mostly didn't exist. No calculus in my old high school, but now its much more common.

Really? I graduated from High School in 1976. I had calculus in High School. I took math major-level calculus at a good college and it was halfway through the second semester when I hit some things like bizarre coordinate systems for integrals that I hadn't seen before. My school segregated the top 10% of the class into what is now call A/P classes. Back then, it was called "Intensive Work Group". Any affluent professional bedroom town suburb today has something like that.


In my opinion, all of this depends on your zip code for K-12 and the quality of the college you attend afterwards. Top suburban school systems in New England I'm familiar with and the few selective urban exam schools in the country do their best to simulate the education you'd get at a mid-level prep school. The parents wouldn't stand for less. You also get a totally different education at a top college where the students are bright, motivated, and well-prepared compared to a run-of-the-mill state school. The reality is it now places a huge premium on living in the right town and getting into the right college. With engaged parents, a fairly bright kid is programmed to be successful.

 
Old 12-15-2018, 12:59 PM
 
2,853 posts, read 1,277,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyWifiGoesSlow View Post
I believe they want the population stupid so they are easier to control.

Again I will do the Google search link instead of linking a page The Deliberate Dumbing Down - Google Search

Is it true ?
As long as personal finance, investment is not taught at school, it will always be a dumbed down version.

I bet they wont teach anyting about finance at all to the common masses.
 
Old 12-15-2018, 01:07 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
73,843 posts, read 65,530,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Ruth, you tell us about your experiences. He has the same right. That doesn't mean that I agree with him.
?? I was asking him to tell us what school emphasizes feelings over fact, and wondered why he would assume all schools are like that. My post said nothing about his right to post about his experience.

 
Old 12-15-2018, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Dallas
5,493 posts, read 4,657,037 times
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Whether it is deliberate or not, it's happening. I am continually amazed at how many of the 20 somethings I work with cannot spell, use correct grammar or know anything relevant about history.
 
Old 12-15-2018, 01:10 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
73,843 posts, read 65,530,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Really? I graduated from High School in 1976. I had calculus in High School. I took math major-level calculus at a good college and it was halfway through the second semester when I hit some things like bizarre coordinate systems for integrals that I hadn't seen before. My school segregated the top 10% of the class into what is now call A/P classes. Back then, it was called "Intensive Work Group". Any affluent professional bedroom town suburb today has something like that.


In my opinion, all of this depends on your zip code for K-12 and the quality of the college you attend afterwards. Top suburban school systems in New England I'm familiar with and the few selective urban exam schools in the country do their best to simulate the education you'd get at a mid-level prep school. The parents wouldn't stand for less. You also get a totally different education at a top college where the students are bright, motivated, and well-prepared compared to a run-of-the-mill state school. The reality is it now places a huge premium on living in the right town and getting into the right college. With engaged parents, a fairly bright kid is programmed to be successful.
By then, universities were requiring more HS math than before, as an admission requirement. In the 60's, only algebra and geometry were required by schools like UC Berkeley, so in some school, calculus courses didn't exist, and trig was an elective.
 
Old 12-15-2018, 01:16 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
73,843 posts, read 65,530,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquietpath View Post
Whether it is deliberate or not, it's happening. I am continually amazed at how many of the 20 somethings I work with cannot spell, use correct grammar or know anything relevant about history.
But that's nothing new. There have been complaints about exactly that for generations.

I think the person who pointed out, that more is required in schools than used to be, was on the right track. I've gone back and looked at the schools I attended, and they require a lot more for HS graduation. This is because state flagship universities require a lot more for admission. Students now have to take "World Economics", high-level math, and a certain amount of college-level courses, either as AP classes or outright college attendance in HS, in order to get admitted to many universities. For non-college-bound students, the curriculum is easier, but I imagine that even for those cases, HS graduation requirements are more demanding than they used to be.

Whether or not people retain what they learned in grade school through HS is a whole other matter.
 
Old 12-15-2018, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13,537 posts, read 24,458,998 times
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Way back during the WWII era there was a radio quiz show called Information Please. Episodes can be found at archive.org if you would like to listen. It's an interesting time capsule and the prizes were things like War Bonds and sets of encyclopedias. All the questions were sent in by listeners and the idea was to stump the experts. This was before my time but my parents probably heard them.

Every time I listen I walk away convinced people were better educated then than they are now. Especially in subjects like literature, poetry, and plays. Subjects considered 'soft' today because they don't graduate people who are immediately employable. I think there was more learning for the joy of learning back then!
 
Old 12-15-2018, 02:51 PM
 
5,938 posts, read 3,173,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
But that's nothing new. There have been complaints about exactly that for generations.

I think the person who pointed out, that more is required in schools than used to be, was on the right track. I've gone back and looked at the schools I attended, and they require a lot more for HS graduation. This is because state flagship universities require a lot more for admission. Students now have to take "World Economics", high-level math, and a certain amount of college-level courses, either as AP classes or outright college attendance in HS, in order to get admitted to many universities. For non-college-bound students, the curriculum is easier, but I imagine that even for those cases, HS graduation requirements are more demanding than they used to be.

Whether or not people retain what they learned in grade school through HS is a whole other matter.
Requiring more, in terms of calc, AP classes, etc, does not mean the students in high school are any more prepared than in the past. Making more classes available to the upper students is good, but does not mean other students are taking them, nor does it mean they are learning more general math, etc. In many ways this ties to the basic theme -- we may be graduating more students in more classes, but to do so have dumbed down the content so that a high diploma doesn't mean the same thing.
 
Old 12-15-2018, 03:24 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
73,843 posts, read 65,530,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
Way back during the WWII era there was a radio quiz show called Information Please. Episodes can be found at archive.org if you would like to listen. It's an interesting time capsule and the prizes were things like War Bonds and sets of encyclopedias. All the questions were sent in by listeners and the idea was to stump the experts. This was before my time but my parents probably heard them.

Every time I listen I walk away convinced people were better educated then than they are now. Especially in subjects like literature, poetry, and plays. Subjects considered 'soft' today because they don't graduate people who are immediately employable. I think there was more learning for the joy of learning back then!
Being familiar with the classics of literature was considered important back then.
 
Old 12-15-2018, 03:35 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
73,843 posts, read 65,530,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Requiring more, in terms of calc, AP classes, etc, does not mean the students in high school are any more prepared than in the past. Making more classes available to the upper students is good, but does not mean other students are taking them, nor does it mean they are learning more general math, etc. In many ways this ties to the basic theme -- we may be graduating more students in more classes, but to do so have dumbed down the content so that a high diploma doesn't mean the same thing.
I'm not quite following you here, tnff. I think college-prep-track students are a LOT better educated now, than before. As for the non-college-track kids, IDK, that may not have changed much.

The comparison (between "then" and "now") may depend on the school, and what materials it chooses, what books, as to whether content is dumbed down or not. And how dumbed down can it be, if we're talking about colleges that require HS students to take college classes, or a number of AP classes, in HS? If we're to compare apples with apples, college-prep-track HS students now are much better prepared.

One example of "smarting up" curricula, vs. "dumbing down", is how literature is taught these days. Nowadays, they teach "literary analysis", so that students can better understand the structure of the novels they read, and are better able to identify important elements in the story, items and themes that are symbolic of hidden messages the author wanted to get across. When I was in school, those things were seemingly randomly plucked out of thin air, and no one understood how or why the teaching chose a certain element as a symbol of whatever. Students understand literature much better now, than before, so literature is more meaningful to them.

Another example, is that more science is required now. It used to be, that to get into any of the CA universities, students only needed basic biology in their final two years of HS. One lab science, and that's all. For some, that was the sum total of ANY science instruction they'd ever received in their 12 years of pre-college schooling.

Is history instruction watered down these days? I don't know, is it? Geography? That's always been kind of weak.

Compared to some of those 8th-grade tests kids in the early part of the last century had to pass, we've dumbed down. But compared to just a couple of generations ago, I don't think so.
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