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Old 12-23-2018, 10:18 AM
 
5 posts, read 6,092 times
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When students don't really know what they want to do, I ask them a series of questions about how they want to work:

Do you want to work with your head or your hands or both?
Do you want to work indoors or outdoors?
Do you want to work alone or with other people?
Do you want to do the same thing every day or something different every day?

These questions and others can help a young person narrow down the kinds of jobs they might prefer.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,520 posts, read 43,909,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightlysparrow View Post
Absolutely. For a good read, Rise of the Robots (nonfiction, well-researched) by Martin Ford paints even a worse picture for college grads. Essentially, most jobs in the next decades that we used to consider as needing a college education will be replaced by Big Data, machine learning, computers and algorithms---examples include much of the work of lawyers, radiologists, journalists, statisticians, teachers, librarians, mid-level managers, and more. It's the trades and (some) medical direct-care occupations that will survive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
Many of those jobs still need human subjective decision-making and won't be completely automated.
Was just about to say that, Birdie! As a librarian myself, I laugh when people say we're going to be replaced by robots... if you've ever seen the Twilight Zone episode "The Obsolete Man," it still comes across as purely science-fiction 50+ years after its airing. So I doubt it'll come true within our lifetimes!

And the same goes for teachers, at least until we're at the point where TRUE artificial intelligence (robots that can "think" and act like real humans) is a thing. At least half of their & my work involves direct human contact, and I'm pretty sure a machine can't manage that yet. Also fairly sure a robot couldn't manage a class full of teenagers, lol.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,520 posts, read 43,909,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I'm not talking about some hamburger flipper or laborer. I'm talking about someone who learns a skill in the trades. How many college grads do you know making $80,000-$150,000 a year? some, but not all. I'm not saying one should not get a college degree. What I'm saying is one should consider all options and not think that college is the only option to making a good living.
Most of the grads I know earn at least that much, myself included. I realize I'm in a ridiculously high-COL region, but you asked!

And while the trades are a great idea for some, they aren't the answer for everyone. I'm definitely more of a thinker than a "doer," so for ME it made sense to go into a more academic field (librarianship). I'm fairly handy when I try, but lack the physical strength and stamina for most trades - always have, since I've struggled with various physical ailments since childhood. Therefore I agree that guidance counselors should recommend either or BOTH options, depending on the specific student.

The bigger issue imo is their limited financial guidance, as student loans are the LAST route I recommend to school-aged patrons. Another thing they should be pushing more is community college, since you can save a lot of money by starting there; and then transferring to a 4-year college to complete the BA/BS. So many kids think this will hinder their future employment, when really nobody cares where you start school... they only care that & maybe where you finished the degree/s. I started at a 4-year university, dropped out with terrible grades, went to CC for a year to boost that GPA, then transferred and completed my BA (followed by MLIS) at another school. Literally none of my employers have been concerned with these details, and I've been gainfully employed with very few gaps in my working life.
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:08 PM
 
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The problem is that millions of adults in this country are advising teenagers on something they know nothing about. There are few who know how to navigate the higher education system and finish degrees with little to no debt. If you know how to work the system, you can finish a bachelor's degree for less than $10k.

There aren't enough plumber, electrician, and welding jobs for the hundreds of millions of workers. Despite the misinformation repeated all the time on this forum, most plumbers are not pulling in six figures.
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Houston
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If algebra was difficult skip college and find a trade.
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:24 PM
 
6,809 posts, read 9,881,165 times
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Someone mentioned the physical requirements of some trades that everyone can't do, but there are also intelligence requirements. Some trades require decent spatial intelligence.

The military is also not a solution to the college debt problem because, not only are there a million ways to be disqualified from enlistment, but there are only so many people the military has a need for. Could you imagine the burden on taxpayers if we had to pay for the salaries and benefits (including tuition assistance) of tens of millions of young people who are just going to sit around because we aren't at war?

The solution is diversification. Some people are cut out for college, others are not. Some people are cut out for the trades, others are not. Some people are cut out for the military, others are not. Keep in mind that many physical jobs are being replaced with robots.

I always advise people to take advantage of community colleges, CLEP, DSST, AP, and other cheap, alternative ways of earning college credits.
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Old 12-23-2018, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,091 posts, read 8,663,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
Most of the grads I know earn at least that much, myself included. I realize I'm in a ridiculously high-COL region, but you asked!



The bigger issue imo is their limited financial guidance, as student loans are the LAST route I recommend to school-aged patrons. Another thing they should be pushing more is community college, since you can save a lot of money by starting there; and then transferring to a 4-year college to complete the BA/BS. So many kids think this will hinder their future employment, when really nobody cares where you start school... they only care that & maybe where you finished the degree/s. I started at a 4-year university, dropped out with terrible grades, went to CC for a year to boost that GPA, then transferred and completed my BA (followed by MLIS) at another school. Literally none of my employers have been concerned with these details, and I've been gainfully employed with very few gaps in my working life.
I agree about the community to a four year college route. Thatís what I did. Two years at a CC then transferred to a State University.

One point Iíd like to mention is where you went to school and what your GPA was only really matters to your first employer. After that itís all about your job history and experience. By employer #3 a BA is a BA. With a few exceptions.
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Old 12-23-2018, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Central IL
13,894 posts, read 7,494,487 times
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Just as I'd not advise every student to get a degree in Business, or to become an attorney, or to go into a STEM career, I'd certainly not advise everyone to go into a trade. I get tired of hearing everyone say you must LOVE your job and just as much I'm tired of hearing people say to "follow the money".

Find something you can at least do well at, which usually means you at least like it a little - and if there are several things like that, then go after the one that pays the best.
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:24 PM
 
1,102 posts, read 618,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
There aren't enough plumber, electrician, and welding jobs for the hundreds of millions of workers. Despite the misinformation repeated all the time on this forum, most plumbers are not pulling in six figures.
The kid only needs one job.
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:36 PM
 
6,809 posts, read 9,881,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd393 View Post
The kid only needs one job.
This is a hypothetical thread about what kind of advice one should give an 18 year old, not a specific person. In that context, advising any and all 18 year olds to learn a trade is not a solution to the college debt problem.
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