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Based on reading the posts, I guess some of you mean the issue is with the education system's flaws on itself, That we won't have much expectations their attempts at foreign language education would do any good when they can barely get basic competence in English for native English speakers aka Anglo Americans by the time they graduate from school?
And that the US is overall behind not just in foreign language education but any language education including English? Id be curious to ask how well Anglo Americans perform with English language and grammar skills compared to their counterparts in other English current or former commonwealth countries. In this case would an recent child or descendant from the UK also suffer "language skill attrition" as well after settling in the US for multiple generations?
From what I've seen posted on C-D by Brits, their schools don't do a better job of teaching grammar, but there may be a lot of variation. Whether or not English grammar is taught at all in grade school or high school (advanced grammar), depends on state standards. Some states don't teach it at all, others make it a priority.
Foreign language isn't offered in grade school in our district, but Spanish is offered at my middle daughter's previous middle school, and Mandarin, Japanese, French, and Spanish are offered at my eldest daughter's previous (IBMYP) school. She's currently in her second year of Mandarin. She can speak, write, and read simple/casual conversations. She's planning to continue through high school and minor in it in college.
Some could handle it, but not most. In our HS, that would mean a senior would be taking: Trig, Physics, English composition, Economics, Foreign language, and PE. That is a heavier load than most college bound can handle.
One reason more European kids have better foreign language knowledge may be simply because they are exposed to it more. The countries are small and many people travel to their neighboring countries frequently.
Honestly, the kids who achieve fluency the fastest and best do it by taking special language classes in the given country during the summer. They concentrate on learning the language and culture without the stress of taking other classes. But for American kids that is quite a luxury.
My granddaughter is currently taking AP Physics, AP Chemistry, Precalculus (honors), English 3, AP US History and Spanish III (honors). She did sort of start Spanish in elementary school and also took it in middle school and jr high, but the elementary course was not very helpful. I don't know how well she speaks Spanish, but she has learned to read and write it. Not sure what she will be taking next year yet, but she will probably take Spanish IV.
I heard that more and more schools are offering foreign language education in elementary school nowadays. And in the form of fun rather than memorizations and tests. Particularly in areas where there is a significant number of people speaking a language other than English. I know that in parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Florida, and the North East there are plenty of neighborhoods like that.
I hear this is a vast improvement compared to the past where foreign language education was offered in some Middle Schools but is only a two year requirement in high school and its mostly about memorization of words and tests and not good for holding a conservation.
Anyone has experience they can share?
I've looked at the district I grew up in, and the foreign language instruction has gone downhill drastically. One high school I went to used to offer Spanish, French, and German and now only offers Spanish. One offered Spanish, French, and Latin and now only offers Spanish and Vietnamese.
By the way, just because a class is "fun" doesn't mean it's good for everyone. I do not learn foreign languages in the "fun" ways that are popular now but learn them quite well through the "boring" memorization method.
I remember when I was in HS and the only foreign language classes being taught were French, Spanish or German. One of my relatives and friend's kids options for language instruction includes Chinese, Latin, and Arabic.
I remember when I was in HS and the only foreign language classes being taught were French, Spanish or German. One of my relatives and friend's kids options for language instruction includes Chinese, Latin, and Arabic.
That was better than my school, which only had French, Spanish and Latin. Latin turned out to be more useful than I expected, but I'd have loved to take German, after the other 3. I had to wait 'til college for that.
Arabic--impressive! It sounds like some school districts are trying to keep their language programs relevant to current affairs in the world. The US gov't is scouring university programs in Arabic and other Near Eastern languages, for proficient speakers. Those are considered strategic languages now, on a par with the importance East European languages had, during the Cold War.
Some could handle it, but not most. In our HS, that would mean a senior would be taking: Trig, Physics, English composition, Economics, Foreign language, and PE. That is a heavier load than most college bound can handle.
One reason more European kids have better foreign language knowledge may be simply because they are exposed to it more. The countries are small and many people travel to their neighboring countries frequently.
Honestly, the kids who achieve fluency the fastest and best do it by taking special language classes in the given country during the summer. They concentrate on learning the language and culture without the stress of taking other classes. But for American kids that is quite a luxury.
In the inner-city school where I teach, a typical schedule for a college-bound senior includes AP English IV, AP Biology or Chemistry, Trig and Pre-Cal or dual-enrollment College Algebra, Government and Economics, a third-year foreign language, and three other electives, perhaps Band or Choral Music, fourth-year JROTC, or an advanced art class. In the private prep schools in our area, the schedule would include a full plate of AP classes including Calculus and a sixth year of foreign language, the first two coming in middle school.
I've looked at the district I grew up in, and the foreign language instruction has gone downhill drastically. One high school I went to used to offer Spanish, French, and German and now only offers Spanish. One offered Spanish, French, and Latin and now only offers Spanish and Vietnamese.
By the way, just because a class is "fun" doesn't mean it's good for everyone. I do not learn foreign languages in the "fun" ways that are popular now but learn them quite well through the "boring" memorization method.
Interesting, I am guessing that you probably live in or around north Orange County, or in San Jose? Where Spanish and Vietnamese are heavily used and not much people choose to learn the other available languages therefore maybe it’s probably why they got discontinued. Correct me if I am wrong.
As for “Fun” ways I can think of is kind of like using Dora the Explorer or Go Diego Go or similar ways. To me is seems more attention getting than memorization and tests at least for the younger kids.
Interesting, I am guessing that you probably live in or around north Orange County, or in San Jose? Where Spanish and Vietnamese are heavily used and not much people choose to learn the other available languages therefore maybe it’s probably why they got discontinued. Correct me if I am wrong.
As for “Fun” ways I can think of is kind of like using Dora the Explorer or Go Diego Go or similar ways. To me is seems more attention getting than memorization and tests at least for the younger kids.
Not currently, but I grew up in North/Central Orange County, yes. However, only having those two languages causes this issue. The kids who already speak Spanish fluently take Spanish (and it looks as though the Spanish for Spanish Speakers classes that were also offered when I went there have been discontinued), and the kids who already speak Vietnamese fluently take Vietnamese. Those kids don't actually learn a foreign language.
Other languages are still extremely useful. French, German, and Mandarin are all quite useful in business for instance. Latin is extremely useful for a myriad of reasons, as well.
I'm 32; in 1994 I entered the 4th grade at a private school that had foreign language instruction (on a daily basis) from K-8. So, when I entered, I was a bit behind most of my classmates (the ones who'd been at the school since kindergarten), but I caught up rather quickly. I ended up taking Spanish from 4th through 11th grades. The verdict? Useless, because of the manner of teaching--all memorization, no actual emphasis on developing speaking skills/trying to promote eventual fluency. In both grade school and high school, I had one native Spanish speaker in my Spanish classes (a Colombia native in grade school; a Venezuela native in HS), and both of these guys (both being friends of mine through soccer) were essentially average students in the class--I'm sure lack of effort had something/a lot to do with it, but they'd usually get lower grades than me. And yet, they'd carry on entire conversations with the teacher when they felt like it. Meanwhile I was getting grades in the mid-high 90s all throughout and I could barely handle more than 'Hola! Como estas?' conversationally. Until the method of instruction is modified, I'll have little faith in foreign language instruction in the school setting. You did hint at a change in your OP, but I'm talking overhaul rather than minor change. I reserve the right to change my mind if I learn that present-day high schoolers are emerging as bilingual, but I think I'd already have heard about such a revolutionary pedagogical development had it already occurred.
(edit to add that this school was located in Buffalo; the fact that I happened to have a South American presence (however minor) in my classes throughout was a bit of a statistical fluke...to this day, my Venezuelan HS friend is the only person I've ever met from Venezuela)
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 02-04-2019 at 12:10 AM..
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