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Old 02-07-2019, 10:17 PM
 
50,570 posts, read 40,835,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
The OP is being a little unfairly piled on here.

1 - At the middle school level (grade 7), by definition, this technically fits into the “sexual harassment” category and that is not something administrators are allowed to just blow off these days. There is a reason the principal called the OP and it has to do with that reality, and that reality was also probably a motivator for the teacher sending the kid to the office when they found out about it, aside from the simple act of vandalism. The principal will be unable to tell the parent what was done to the other child, but for both the administration’s and the district’s own legal wellbeing it better have been more than a casual chat, it better have been documented, and it better have included a clear message such behavior will not be tolerated to the boy’s parents. Hopefully, this is a one time thing but if this is, or becomes, a pattern of behavior for the boy it is a legitimate problem that will have to be addressed by law or regulation in most states.

2 - I know everyone wants to brush this off as “boys will be boys”, and maybe that was all it was, but stop and think about it in terms of the #MeToo movement. Besides, except for about a decade or two in the recent past, this would have never been allowed without consequences, even if the adults involved felt it was all part of the stupid things boys do simply because they are boys. In the “good old days” if a boys drew an obscene picture on a girl’s book, who wasn’t considered a little fast and loose themselves by the administration, he would have been paddled at school and then punished again when he got home. Something can be developmentally normal but nonetheless unacceptable behavior - that is exactly where immature teenagers drawing genitalia on another person’s book fits in most cases. In other rare cases, it is actually an alarming precursor to future very serious deviant behavior. The two middle school boys in my career who had notable issues with inappropriately drawing sexually related body parts did both end up serving time as adults for sexually related crimes.

3 - The parent can request their daughter not be in classes with the kid and the school will NEED to do what it can to accommodate that request, however, at this juncture it will be the OP’s daughter whose classes will be changed, not the boy’s. That is actually not a good idea, the girl may feel like she is being punished on top of being victimized. If the boy does it again after this event, which the administration has clearly been made aware of, then there may be a legitimate case made for the boy to be moved based on a pattern of harassment.
Short story: He behaved badly, deserves some punishment but shouldn't be removed from class but she could be if she wanted. That's the general opinion that just about everyone has had in this thread.

Any "piling on" seems to have been largely directed at the OP wanting a number of things that go beyond the level of the offense including information about the boy that they would not be allowed to share.

 
Old 02-07-2019, 10:25 PM
 
991 posts, read 498,526 times
Reputation: 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by hope2settle View Post
hi everyone,
thanks for your all constructive opinion.
i hope this discussion will help/ give idea to other that might have similar situation, what is an appropriate follow up after the incident or maybe if it is a need for follow up.
since i like do things in order sequence, maybe let i do same thing in here:
1. a boy draw human male genital organ on my girl text book. my girl report it to teacher and teacher ask bring it to principal.
if it is a blown COMPLETELY out of proportion or kind of teasing or just need "eraser", why this teacher that teach for 16 years in this middle school bother to sent the text book to principal?

if it is a blown COMPLETELY out of proportion or kind of teasing or just need "eraser", why the principal bother to call me and replace the page of the drawing?




2. i don't know how high your all education, career and workplace. but in my job position, i can't afford do something tiny mistake without big/ terminal consequence within days.

i choose this middle school because of the best in district/ region. i sacrifice a lot move specifically to this district to hope get best education for my kids and have high respect the principal and teacher do his job ethically and professionally. it is well know, best school always placed in most expensive place to live in region.
i understand completely the principal busy so forget about this blown COMPLETELY out of proportion or kind of teasing or just need "eraser", but over 4 weeks, what i got for highest tax school in region , principal only give a call?

i asked my girl, how's she feeling to be same class with the boy, she said, not comfortable.

there is no sop in this rank no.1 middle school for 4 years in row?

seriously? no standard operation procedure manual for communication for this blown COMPLETELY out of proportion or kind of teasing or just need "eraser"?




3. i never have intention go after this boy or the principal. i just want a fair treatment.

if from young already have a not fair treatment, how to have a dream of better life in future?

if in this kind of so called best of possible school i can get for my kids, the treatment for blown COMPLETELY out of proportion or kind of teasing or just need "eraser" just like this, what about the normal and below normal school?

again i completely don't understand if it is an innocent or funny or naughty, harmless thing, prepared for not completely sheltered from the real world, why the principal bother to tear the text book page and replace with the new page?
it is innocent.

it is funny or naughty.

it is harmless thing.

it is prepared for not completely sheltered from the real world.

why the teacher ask my girl bring it to principal?
to remind everyone, it is not a woman fault if a woman dress sexily and she got raped.

fyi, my girl wear glasses, short hair, book worm type, normal fully jeans everyday. so... where is the connection of innocent or funny or naughty or harmless thing or prepared for not completely sheltered from the real world?




4. i remotely consult my company legal dept about this blown COMPLETELY out of proportion or kind of teasing or just need "eraser". yes, there is possibility because local born boy did something to
foreign born girl. if the foreign born boy draw something to local born girl, it is already in local newspaper/ tv.

seriously? already in 2019, we still have this kind situation?

i could say a principal from best middle school in region is like a ceo of 500-750 million net income corporate class. he should be free and 100% old and wise enough to know from this kind local/ foreign born student issue.

this one of the reason i still have not meet him, to make sure i have something black and white, big, a law, easy understand for him like 1+1=2 chart, so he don't give billions reason and treat me like i spend my kindergarten 20 years first before i have all 4 PhD from usa top 8 universities





5. yes, the 5th. if point no. 1 the principal settle it in professional, no one will say
blown COMPLETELY out of proportion or kind of teasing or just need "eraser".
so should i focus:
why the boy still in my girl classes?

or

why the teacher ask my girl bring the text book to principal?

or
why the principal tear the text book page and replace with the new page?




even online discussion like this forums is not a place for real deal discussion, i hope everyone could give neutral and sincere opinion for benefit others than focus spelling, grammar or foreign/ local born.
I don't think this was blown out of proportion. The school handled the situation appropriately and notified you. Nothing to be concerned about. Your daughter is in middleschool and quite young for sex (and this drawing is far from sex). But in a couple years, she will be in high school, where sex is common. Sex should never happen in school, but your daughter will be exposed to it and could possible participate in it real soon. She's very aware.
 
Old 02-08-2019, 05:43 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,285 posts, read 10,256,879 times
Reputation: 19253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Short story: He behaved badly, deserves some punishment but shouldn't be removed from class but she could be if she wanted. That's the general opinion that just about everyone has had in this thread.

Any "piling on" seems to have been largely directed at the OP wanting a number of things that go beyond the level of the offense including information about the boy that they would not be allowed to share.
People are implying the parent shouldn’t be so upset. People are acting like what the boy did was no big deal, it actually is a big deal. The kid deliberately defaced her property and did so in a manner that was most likely to make her extremely uncomfortable. The parent has a right to be outraged.

What’s more, too many posters have used the OP’s writing skills in the posts, which based on word selection and usage indicate the writer who is most likely not a native English speaker, as an opportunity to bash the OP on a personal level as either being uncouth, ignorant, or stupid - none of which is probably true. Even if the OP were an American educated person, their writing skills should not be used as some sort of proof that their values or concerns are somehow illegitimate.

Just to make it clear, the parent has a right to be upset. The problem is that the parent, like many parents who feel their child has been hurt by another student, is understandably frustrated that they can not be told exactly how that other student was dealt with. The OP, like many other parents, feels helpless to insure that their child will be protected while at school. They struggle to understand how the other child’s right to privacy trumps their right to be informed about something they feel is a threat to their child. Just because it is the child’s emotional safety instead of physical safety does not make the parent unreasonable for wanting assurances.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:54 AM
 
991 posts, read 498,526 times
Reputation: 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
They struggle to understand how the other child’s right to privacy trumps their right to be informed about something they feel is a threat to their child.
Where does this right come from (specifically, the bolded part)? Is there a right to be informed about something someone feels? Am I missing something?
 
Old 02-08-2019, 07:03 AM
 
50,570 posts, read 40,835,434 times
Reputation: 31661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
People are implying the parent shouldn’t be so upset. People are acting like what the boy did was no big deal, it actually is a big deal. The kid deliberately defaced her property and did so in a manner that was most likely to make her extremely uncomfortable. The parent has a right to be outraged. .
Again, most people seemed to agree that the kids behavior was bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
What’s more, too many posters have used the OP’s writing skills in the posts, which based on word selection and usage indicate the writer who is most likely not a native English speaker, as an opportunity to bash the OP on a personal level as either being uncouth, ignorant, or stupid - none of which is probably true. Even if the OP were an American educated person, their writing skills should not be used as some sort of proof that their values or concerns are somehow illegitimate.
You didn't mention any of that in your previous post, had you done so I would have agreed. Frankly it has nothing to do with the core issue here and I've generally ignored those posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Just to make it clear, the parent has a right to be upset. The problem is that the parent, like many parents who feel their child has been hurt by another student, is understandably frustrated that they can not be told exactly how that other student was dealt with. The OP, like many other parents, feels helpless to insure that their child will be protected while at school. They struggle to understand how the other child’s right to privacy trumps their right to be informed about something they feel is a threat to their child. Just because it is the child’s emotional safety instead of physical safety does not make the parent unreasonable for wanting assurances.
Yep, I think no one here feels that another person has no right to be upset.

The boy has been punished, the book has been replaced, they talked to the parents, the students etc. so the PROBLEM here is that the OP cannot process that things are done differently than what they want so they've talked to lawyers, blamed the principal for not following guidelines while asking them to violate guidelines.

So, they're upset. We agree.
They want the school system to completely change their procedures to accommodate their being upset. Our refutation of that point doesn't mean we don't acknowledge them being upset.
I get the strong feeling that OP is going to be upset by anything short of the 7th grade offender receiving a good "caning" in the public square and being expelled from the school.
 
Old 02-08-2019, 07:24 AM
 
8,936 posts, read 3,452,488 times
Reputation: 22399
Again, context and intent matter here so much.

Was this some squirrelly clowny kid who was friends with her, and was trying to make her laugh, or is this a known bully who was trying to intimidate her and threaten her in a vague way?

Intent is so important.
 
Old 02-08-2019, 07:53 AM
 
4,489 posts, read 1,958,709 times
Reputation: 12704
Hey OP, I have a proposal you can bring to the principal with your lawyers.

The offender will be banished to a small island off the coast of Madagascar. All his parents' assets will be impounded and turned over to a trust to be set up with the sole purpose of paying for therapy and counseling for your daughter to deal with the terrible experience of having been exposed to a 12 year old boy's smutty drawing.

Once the offender reaches the ago of 18 he will be drafted into the US Army, sent to the military prison at Leavenworth, Kan. and put to hard labor until he reaches the age of 35, at which point he will be given a Greyhound bus ticket to anywhere he can reach for under $100, plus a pair of pants, a shirt, two changes of underwear, $20 in cash, and a baseball cap emblazoned with "I spent my youth in prison and all I got was a lousy ball cap".

Meantime, we'll establish a foundation to ensure your daughter's educational expenses at any private secondary school and any university of your and her choice will be 100% covered, any shortfall to be made up by special property tax assessments on the entire faculty of the school where this incident happened.

The principal and the teacher in whose class the offense occurred will be locked into pillories in front of the school and bushel baskets of rotting vegetables, dead cats, etc. will be provided for passersby to hurl at them. This will be scheduled for at least six weeks, seven days a week, preferably during a period of snow storms and below-freezing temperatures.

Will that be satisfactory?
 
Old 02-08-2019, 08:05 AM
 
4,489 posts, read 1,958,709 times
Reputation: 12704
Oh, I forgot to mention that the school building will be bulldozed, and the ground plowed over and sowed with salt to ensure nothing not even a dandelion will grow there for seven generations.
 
Old 02-08-2019, 08:39 AM
 
7,840 posts, read 8,653,392 times
Reputation: 6092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
People are implying the parent shouldn’t be so upset. People are acting like what the boy did was no big deal, it actually is a big deal. The kid deliberately defaced her property and did so in a manner that was most likely to make her extremely uncomfortable. The parent has a right to be outraged.

What’s more, too many posters have used the OP’s writing skills in the posts, which based on word selection and usage indicate the writer who is most likely not a native English speaker, as an opportunity to bash the OP on a personal level as either being uncouth, ignorant, or stupid - none of which is probably true. Even if the OP were an American educated person, their writing skills should not be used as some sort of proof that their values or concerns are somehow illegitimate.

Just to make it clear, the parent has a right to be upset. The problem is that the parent, like many parents who feel their child has been hurt by another student, is understandably frustrated that they can not be told exactly how that other student was dealt with. The OP, like many other parents, feels helpless to insure that their child will be protected while at school. They struggle to understand how the other child’s right to privacy trumps their right to be informed about something they feel is a threat to their child. Just because it is the child’s emotional safety instead of physical safety does not make the parent unreasonable for wanting assurances.
1. The parent in this case is so upset s/he risks making the overall problem worse.
2. The parent has no right to be outraged. The parent has every right, even duty, to be concerned.
3. It is unreasonable for the parent to angle for and fret over information s/he is not allowed to receive. Frustrating, sure. Worth worrying about much? No. People who dwell on the intractable exacerbate whatever problem(s) are at hand.
4. For me it's not the OPs writing style/competence. It's the contextually faulty logic that is very bothersome.
*Setting up a meeting to demand the kid be moved out of class - a). it would be inappropriate to even ask b). there is no chance the school will act on the OP's wishes.
*Apparently desiring some sort of meeting/confrontation with the kid.
*Comparing this act in middle school with a similar act in the workplace. Come on.

__________________________

One note made above that is worth touching on........if this really was a one time deal it's time to discuss and move on. If instead this is part of an ongoing set of actions on his part then it's time to go to war.
 
Old 02-08-2019, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
20,897 posts, read 9,766,892 times
Reputation: 19584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
People are implying the parent shouldn’t be so upset. People are acting like what the boy did was no big deal, it actually is a big deal. The kid deliberately defaced her property and did so in a manner that was most likely to make her extremely uncomfortable. The parent has a right to be outraged.

What’s more, too many posters have used the OP’s writing skills in the posts, which based on word selection and usage indicate the writer who is most likely not a native English speaker, as an opportunity to bash the OP on a personal level as either being uncouth, ignorant, or stupid - none of which is probably true. Even if the OP were an American educated person, their writing skills should not be used as some sort of proof that their values or concerns are somehow illegitimate.

Just to make it clear, the parent has a right to be upset. The problem is that the parent, like many parents who feel their child has been hurt by another student, is understandably frustrated that they can not be told exactly how that other student was dealt with. The OP, like many other parents, feels helpless to insure that their child will be protected while at school. They struggle to understand how the other child’s right to privacy trumps their right to be informed about something they feel is a threat to their child. Just because it is the child’s emotional safety instead of physical safety does not make the parent unreasonable for wanting assurances.
I guess I would take exception to your choice of the word "outraged". Upset, certainly. "outraged"...well, let's put it this way...if this incident outrages the parent, it's going to be a very difficult middle and high school period. My advice is to "de-outrage" the situation and make some decisions about what the basic problems are and how should they be solved.

We shouldn't say that "boys will be boys", but at the same time, we do need to recognize that the boy (as well as the girl) is about 12 years old, a period of growing up notorious for making bad decisions. So the question is (at least to me) not about how do we get revenge against the boy, but how do we assure that he learns what appropriate behavior is and how to we assure that the daughter feels secure in the school environment. There are time outrage works when approaching a principal, or superintendent, or school board works, but I've seen just as many times when it works against the person who comes on as outraged because it can appear that the outraged person is not seeing things from a reasonable perspective. Outrage often destroys logical and productive discussions.

I agree completely with what you wrote in your third paragraph. Legal confidentiality can be very frustrating to parents who believe they have a right to know what happens to another student. It's often just as frustrating to a principal who could settle things much more quickly if he/she could simply say, "Well, here's what we did..."
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