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Old 02-17-2019, 12:36 PM
 
Location: East Cobb, GA
929 posts, read 400,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphysique View Post
My oldest was previously in the IBMYP, and while we've gone a different route to suit her needs (and my middle daughter), I'd choose the IB diploma program over AP. The high school we're zoned for has a decent selection of AP courses with a fair amount of graduates going to UC (CA) schools.

However, the IB diploma program is the Harvard of college prep programs and is the preferred option of many high-achieving and gifted students and parents. My oldest is considering a boarding school for 10th grade, so the IB school isn't on her radar at this time and the MYP was not challenging enough for her. In any case, given the options presented, I'd choose the IBDP without question.

For the IB program, grades 6-10 is considered the MYP (Middle Years Program), and the IBDP starts in 11th grade with a focus on college-level material and instruction. The workload is considerably tougher when going for the diploma and there are pretty high standards. It isn't just taking classes and completing an exam. IB curriculum is woven into the program and the instruction and educational philosophy are unique and specialized at the high school level, especially higher level courses. There's also a second language requirement and community service requirement. My oldest is in her second year of Mandarin and will continue studying it with the goal to become fluent by 11th grade. She's also working on Japanese. The IB program has numerous resources and opportunities that may suit your kids' needs.

Tips For Parents: AP vs. IB - Which is best for my kid?

The reason we pulled our oldest from the MYP was its lack of flexibility and challenge. The material and instruction weren't engaging and challenging enough, and when we spoke with her first middle school about grade acceleration, it was recommended that we just apply to the IB school for more challenging work and instruction. This seemed to be the answer at first. This is our district's "gifted" program. But we realized midway through that the MYP is just accelerated pacing, not necessarily challenging curriculum and instruction. The only class she really liked was Mandarin. The other classes were just too easy. IBDP is very writing-heavy. Not merely exams and such. It really does prep juniors and seniors for college-level critical thinking and writing. This is where my oldest thrives, and the coursework we chose is very writing focused.

A friend of mine who used to interview for an Ivy League said they really like IBDP grads. They produce college-level work and skills and it shows.
My oldest has a really good work ethic, while she excels in STEM, she’s also an excellent writer. My middle is probably actually better at STEM than the oldest, but he has always struggled with writing and grammar. I would think it would be more beneficial for him to do APs, and then he can customize his schedule a bit more science heavy than he would if he were to do IB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
That's going to vary.

It's been practice for years to not award AP credit (or a course exemption, which is what you describe bed as a replacement) in a student's major.

Colleges have tightened up on both awarding credit or exemptions over the last decade or so, actually longer now that I remember i retired five years ago. It's difficult to get a straight answer why but I believe it's because so many school systems pushed AP at as many kids, including multitudes who really shouldn't have been in the classes.

Greeneville, the schedule isn't necessarily to mirror college but the coursework, in theory, is supposed to. I maintain that many AP classes offer much more material than the comparative college class does. Following on that, if you only got to 1865 in your AP US History class you had a crappy teacher, that course now and always has covered Colonial until today (call that as 2008ish probably now).

As an aside, one justification we were given to switch to an A/B schedule was "Well, it's like college".
Texas universities automatically* award 26 credits to students who complete the IB diploma, but I suspect that one could receive more credits when doing AP classes where there isn’t much scheduling restraint.

Basically it sounds like you’re rolling the dice with IB. It’s all or nothing. You either get the diploma or it’s not worth taking over APs.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:21 PM
 
28,794 posts, read 46,068,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnh View Post
Because we have both options open to us, I posed this question to a college admissions officer (U of Chicago), whether AP or IB coursework was preferable, and the reply was that NEITHER is preferred over the other. She explained that students typically do not have a choice between the two, so counselors do not weigh them against each other directly. Rather they want to see a student challenging themselves at the highest level possible offered at their school.

That said (and I quote) the full IB Diploma is considered the highest level academic achievement for high school, but a student having taken and passed AP-level courses and exams is an equally strong candidate. A student in an IB program who does not complete the full Diploma is less competitive. IB course certificates are valued little.

I taught English at high school in small TX district that did offer both AP and IB courses
There is one other high school in our district and it did the same
When our district obtained IB certification it was the ONLY district in TX with all high schools offering IB strands—
Other districts (and there were not that many) with IB certification made it a magnet program and required interested students to attend one school whether it was in or out of their particular catchment...
And most offered AP at all high schools...

In our district, parents and admins are too competitive to allow one high school to offer IB and the other not
Which meant it was an expensive proposition for our district to undertake because there is so much money spent to certify teachers in main study fields as IB instructors...
Plus there is often different course material to be offered, not to mention the issues with scheduling of classes

Initially we had teachers certified in IB and AP teaching two classes at one time with some students doing IB and some doing AP when there were differences in the curricula

It was a pain in the ass for most teachers involved and the counselors—
We use a tri-mester vs a semester plan so we OFFER a year.5 of courses —
Mainly that is to help students who fail and need to repeat so they can do that inside the normal school year and not go to summer school—because summer school requires tuition from parents and our parents of most kids failing would not pay for summer school for remediation...

Colleges give credit for IB high school grades—when the student has passed the IB final exam—
So students can graduate in the IB strand and come out with a freshman’s credits for many schools
I know plenty of kids who went to college with more than a freshman’s hours
Now some colleges are limiting the number of hours students can transport for college credit because they were losing money by having students graduate in 3 or fewer years...

Many of these kids also took the AP exams because our district pays for those and passed and got AP credit for courses where their IB class might not have worked

Don’t believe that “IB course certificates are valued little”
That is too broad a brush stroke

We had students who tried the IB course work and while they might be able to do the math/science part the English was much more difficult because of the writing components
IB students are also required to complete their finals w/oral exams as well as written ones
Many students find that a difficult challenge

And FWIW—the IB finals are NOT graded by the on-campus instructors—
They are graded by other IB certified instructors from other schools/areas
Which make the standard for passing/grading much more stringent than say an AP course that is taught and graded by the same instructor on campus...
Many students will take an AP class for the higher GPA point value but not take the AP test itself which is likely more difficult as a one-off...
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:42 PM
 
6,852 posts, read 9,993,166 times
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I took an AP English course that was also a dual enrollment course with a community college. I didn't see any difference from the other AP and pre-AP courses I took. Honestly, I would say that all of my pre-AP, AP, and honors courses were harder than the community college courses I took. Community colleges have to serve below average students.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:46 PM
 
28,794 posts, read 46,068,590 times
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IMO—it is harder to cheat and masquerade as “capable” on an IB strand because of the oral final component and having those finals graded by teachers certified in IB but not those teaching that particular student
There is always some personal factor that can influence a grade an instructor gives a student—for positive or negative effect...

And if you compare the reading/writing components, IB requires a more sophisticated world curriculum that AP skirts around

Plenty of districts in some states won’t teach what an IB curriculum might require because of the English reading/writing requirements...even in pre-IB jr high levels—
They are too adverse to controversy from parents to defend an IB curriculum
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:57 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
33,162 posts, read 40,602,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
I taught English at high school in small TX district that did offer both AP and IB courses
There is one other high school in our district and it did the same
When our district obtained IB certification it was the ONLY district in TX with all high schools offering IB strands—
Other districts (and there were not that many) with IB certification made it a magnet program and required interested students to attend one school whether it was in or out of their particular catchment...
And most offered AP at all high schools...

In our district, parents and admins are too competitive to allow one high school to offer IB and the other not
Which meant it was an expensive proposition for our district to undertake because there is so much money spent to certify teachers in main study fields as IB instructors...
Plus there is often different course material to be offered, not to mention the issues with scheduling of classes

Initially we had teachers certified in IB and AP teaching two classes at one time with some students doing IB and some doing AP when there were differences in the curricula

It was a pain in the ass for most teachers involved and the counselors—
We use a tri-mester vs a semester plan so we OFFER a year.5 of courses —
Mainly that is to help students who fail and need to repeat so they can do that inside the normal school year and not go to summer school—because summer school requires tuition from parents and our parents of most kids failing would not pay for summer school for remediation...

Colleges give credit for IB high school grades—when the student has passed the IB final exam—
So students can graduate in the IB strand and come out with a freshman’s credits for many schools
I know plenty of kids who went to college with more than a freshman’s hours
Now some colleges are limiting the number of hours students can transport for college credit because they were losing money by having students graduate in 3 or fewer years...

Many of these kids also took the AP exams because our district pays for those and passed and got AP credit for courses where their IB class might not have worked

Don’t believe that “IB course certificates are valued little”
That is too broad a brush stroke

We had students who tried the IB course work and while they might be able to do the math/science part the English was much more difficult because of the writing components
IB students are also required to complete their finals w/oral exams as well as written ones
Many students find that a difficult challenge

And FWIW—the IB finals are NOT graded by the on-campus instructors—
They are graded by other IB certified instructors from other schools/areas
Which make the standard for passing/grading much more stringent than say an AP course that is taught and graded by the same instructor on campus...
Many students will take an AP class for the higher GPA point value but not take the AP test itself which is likely more difficult as a one-off...
Much of what you wrote concerning cost, scheduling, etc. for IB was also what I observed.

You did, however , have a major, really major, incorrect statement concerning AP. The AP exams are NOT graded in house by the school's teachers. I don't know where you got that. They are collected, sealed and secured in a locked location (my teachers never knew where I stored them, either before or after the test, when I was AP Coordinator. I didn't even tell one team of Administrators we had) and sent out at the close of testing. Very stringent timelines for that are imposed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
I took an AP English course that was also a dual enrollment course with a community college. I didn't see any difference from the other AP and pre-AP courses I took. Honestly, I would say that all of my pre-AP, AP, and honors courses were harder than the community college courses I took. Community colleges have to serve below average students.
I always felt that the AP courses/exams, at least in Social Studies and Literature, were more difficult than the college course.
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:04 PM
 
6,852 posts, read 9,993,166 times
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There are many schools that will award up to 30 credits, not only for AP, but also for CLEP and DSST. I've come across schools that will award 60+ credits for credit-by-exam. AP exams mostly cover general education courses, so there shouldn't be an expectation to transfer many credits into the major. You're still saving a lot of time and money.
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:32 PM
 
Location: East Cobb, GA
929 posts, read 400,535 times
Reputation: 1384
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
There are many schools that will award up to 30 credits, not only for AP, but also for CLEP and DSST. I've come across schools that will award 60+ credits for credit-by-exam. AP exams mostly cover general education courses, so there shouldn't be an expectation to transfer many credits into the major. You're still saving a lot of time and money.
I took a variety of AP courses and was able to enter my university as a sophomore. Most of the AP courses that I took were not related to my majors, but I was able to get all of my gen ed credits taken care of and then some. This was a long time ago, and my university was generous with credit-by-exam and isn't the most prestigious either. Others might not be now.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:45 PM
 
9,731 posts, read 4,200,948 times
Reputation: 14629
IB/AP are mostly the same classes here, difference is their exam method for the AP/IB credit (not class exams). AP was mostly choosing the answer, IB was explaining it

AP/iB is American vs European standardization, it's what we use the SAT/ACT for college entrance. IB was so different EU countries could send their kids to difference schools across Europe in their Erasmus program. US has a federal standard that each state meets, but EU doesn't, IB covered this gap. "international " being a German student to attend a French college.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I understood it. American IB kids could attend a European college because the IB diploma would be recognized.

Why Americans value IB more than AP, besides being the new shiny diploma to show off, I'm not too sure <- but because of this, schools do tend to spend more money on IB programs so they are a bit better because of it, it's a positive feedback loop. also smaller class size if it matters

if the class is AP/IB, you can take the AP/IB exams and get credit from both for college, add in the dual credit some classes have, you can walk out of high school with 90-100 hours before attending college, not that they won't make you retake classes for money. but it fulfills general requirements so you are left with classes you "want" to take and not forced to take.

scuba diving class to hit the hours needed for full time status, and not sitting in another class was nice
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
20,253 posts, read 9,561,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccernerd View Post
My family and I are relocating. My children will be 13, 11, and 7 by the start of the next school year. All three of them are classified as "gifted". My oldest is taking honors and PreAP classes. A dilemma has arisen while I’ve been looking at pontential school districts. I’ve narrowed it down to two school districts, and the decision could come down to whether IB is worth it or not. Just come background:

High School A: It's grades 11-12 with about 2,700 students. The school has a reputation for being hyper competitive. Just about every AP class is offered.

High School B: It’s grades 10-12 with about 4,800 students. Although this school performs very well in state tests and other peramters, it’s still a desirable school. It offers fewer APs than School A, but it offers an IB diploma.

My husband and I only took AP classes, and our knowledge of IB is limited. Is getting the diploma worth it? If they don’t go for the diploma, would taking IB courses over AP courses make sense?
Other things being equal, I would opt for the smaller school. I know that's not the question to asked, but I have never been impressed with mega-high schools.
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:11 PM
 
5,836 posts, read 5,274,062 times
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My advice is only enroll a kid in IB if you think they have a shot at getting the full IB diploma. It’s very rigorous and leans towards highly organized kids with strong critical thinking and writing skills. It’s A LOT of work but as others have said, it’s looked upon very favorably by colleges if they graduate with the full one. The curriculum is has some fairly strong parameters though, so be prepared.

AP is more flexible, so there’s that. Much easier to customize to a kid’s interests. I think it’s a bit better for STEM leaning kids too but that’s arguable.
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