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Old 02-19-2019, 06:37 AM
 
122 posts, read 28,485 times
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OP. I agree with you, but for every parent complaining about homework, there are two parents who want more. They want to get their money's worth out of the public education system, plus it keeps their kids out of their hair, and/or they want their kids to be on top all the time.



When I was growing up in a rural community, we did not have homework, even in high school, because most everyone worked after school, either at a job or at chores, and sometimes, both.
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:52 AM
 
29,342 posts, read 46,389,127 times
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My daughter teaches in public elementary school in FL that has only G/T students—
She teaches 5th grade math for most classes
She gives homework because that is a requirement but doesn’t grade it
It is for the students to practice concepts
If they know the concepts she feels doing the homework is meaningless
If they don’t know the concept and don’t do the homework, it will catch up with them on tests and graded assignments

Of course she is dealing with G/T kids and most of them are very capable/quick
But some can be gifted in language and not math and have issues
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:58 AM
 
29,342 posts, read 46,389,127 times
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I taught English in public high school
I gave homework mainly as completion of work done in class
We graded homework
I took those grades
I did not have G/T kids— most of my classes were 10th-11th grade students in regular classes

I believed the best reflection of a student’s competency was a day to day graded assessment
I posted grades weekly (by student ID#)
Was available before and after school if students needed individual help or to do makeup quizzes

Most of my students did much better using lot of daily work vs tests that were more heavily weighted computing averages
It paid off for plodders who did their work and were responsible about taking responsibility
unlike college work say where a student might have 4 exams a semester
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:59 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
16,436 posts, read 18,959,344 times
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For the posters who are saying that homework is unnecessary, what kind of grades do you think are acceptable?

Are you and your kids all geniuses who got straight-A's throughout school without doing any homework?

I am impressed if you were able to pull that off. lol
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:14 AM
 
6,411 posts, read 3,432,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldgorilla View Post
Practice makes perfect. It's that simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
So how, exactly, do you propose that students practice the things they are taught? In a typical hour long class, you have let's say 10 minutes of getting settled, 30 minutes of instruction, 10 minutes of "practice" and 10 minutes of getting unsettled. That's somewhat idealized; in urban public schools, if you have a drooler, or a screamer, or a fighter, you might lose the majority of that hour to just keeping them from breaking up the furniture.


Do you REALLY think that something like 5-10 minutes practice a day (in ideal circumstances) is going to be enough for a child to learn the material sufficient to gain mastery of it?
Practice is often used as the justification, but is it really? If a kid "gets it" then they get it and doing 10, 20, or 50 repetitions is just tedium and punishment for them. But no added learning. And if a kid doesn't " get it" then not doing it 50 times or worse, doing it wrong repetitively, is also punitive and useless.

Is it really value added practice below high school or just school tradition?
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:21 AM
 
4,489 posts, read 1,961,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Practice is often used as the justification, but is it really? If a kid "gets it" then they get it and doing 10, 20, or 50 repetitions is just tedium and punishment for them. But no added learning. And if a kid doesn't " get it" then not doing it 50 times or worse, doing it wrong repetitively, is also punitive and useless.

Is it really value added practice below high school or just school tradition?
Well, I guess you have never played a musical instrument or participated in a sport.


If you are learning to play basketball, do you stop practicing the first time the ball goes through the hoop?


You don't practice till you can do it right, you practice till you can't do it wrong.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:42 AM
 
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We're not talking musical instruments or sports. If we were the comparison would be the coach telling the kid to go home and run to first base 50 time. Then read 100 pages of the rules for cricket, do a report on DOGSO in soccer, and have a test on playing the bugle tomorrow.

It would be the worst methods in coaching. If a kid doesn't have a good stance or is holding the bat wrong, or "chopping wood" having them keep doing it wrong 50 times to a whiffle ball tossed from the side doesn't help.

Done well, as in teaching someone to be a self learner, homework might be useful in high school. But as usually implemented is an exercise in tedium repeating trivia or very often "we didn't have time in class today. So for tonight's homework do everything you weren't taught today."

Last edited by tnff; 02-19-2019 at 09:51 AM..
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:12 AM
 
Location: The point of no return, er, NorCal
7,131 posts, read 4,481,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
For the posters who are saying that homework is unnecessary, what kind of grades do you think are acceptable?

Are you and your kids all geniuses who got straight-A's throughout school without doing any homework?

I am impressed if you were able to pull that off. lol
I had homework and I did it. I just didn't like it. I don't fancy busywork. It starts to really count for grades in middle and high school, but there are schools and teachers that do away with homework until high school, apart from, say, working on math concepts.

My older two typically had math and classroom-based work they finished at home or the occasional project they worked on. It's very class dependent. My oldest had the most homework for Math and Mandarin, at her previous school.

But again, I'm not a fan of busywork, which is largely what it was for me in middle and high school.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
20,908 posts, read 9,772,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingvanmorrison View Post
Yes homework is necessary.
It is necessary to do things like read books, write papers, do research. There is no time for all that in school.
I know many people who grew up in "developing" nations and I know their schools did not require they read books or write papers about books or do research papers.
As a result these people are simply not as well educated, they didn't learn to write well or read well or think on their own, analyze books or poetry for instance: to THINK.


If we want to have highly educated students who can excel in science, write books, analyze things, solve problems, then homework and learning to write and think is part of that education.


Why do we have homework?
To further our education, to learn to do things on our own and to learn how to read, research, analyze, THINK!


If you want the USA to become like a developing nation with poor education and people who often don't know how to analyze and think for themselves, then fine: stop having homework.
I pretty much agree with your views here.

Let's take the school where I was principal (although it was essentially the same in every school I taught in, as well). It was a 6.5 hour school day (8-2:30). About thirty was for lunch. Another thirty minutes for passing from class to class. And then ten minutes for homeroom. So in reality, instruction was less than 5.5 hours. That instruction ought to be reserved for direct teacher/student interaction -- as you indicate, nowt for reading, writing, doing research, and even the simple practice of (especially) mathematical problems.

I do believe their ought to be reasonable restrictions on the amount of homework. And there are teachers who can be unreasonable about that. I was once interviewing a potential French teacher for our middle school, and I asked her how much homework a student should receive. She responded, "About three hours a night". And I asked how much of that three hours would be in French. Her answer: "The three hours would be for French. After that they can do other homework". Needless to say, we hired someone else.

My personal feeling, a half hour of school stuff at home in grades 4-6, an hour or so in middle school, perhaps up to 90 minutes in high school. And I always encouraged our middle school core teams to coordinate homework to even it out and not put to high a burden of homework on any one night.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:44 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
21,790 posts, read 38,853,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
For the posters who are saying that homework is unnecessary, what kind of grades do you think are acceptable?
Gold ropes at U graduation (pre age 20) were acceptable (tho note needed) 'evidence' to our kids and ourselves.

Our kids or 300+ of their homeschooled peers were not exceptional, (except they had no homework (busy work) until college (@ age 16 in WA State)).
but.. we invested our TIME into equipping them (for life... NOT SCHOOL!), (put career on hold for 10 yrs.. no big deal, kids are more important than a J-O-B + kids are GREAT help in family businesses)

They always tested well above grade level (often several grades above). That is not too tough! (since we volunteered in public schools weekly (we recognized the 'average! '
They passed the very simple state administered college entrance exams while in 9th grade.
No AP classes, No IB classes.. why bother... They had AA degrees and a full Jr transfer status to U by age 16.
They graduated U @ Magna in STEM Again... nothing special.. tho they did pay 100% for their own EDU, apartments, cars, fuel, food, insurance, travel, entertainment, and investments (They had been trading in Roth Iras since age 12) Nothing exceptional... just a few valuable skills to learn while still in the home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
...
Done well, as in teaching someone to be a self learner, homework might be useful in high school. But as usually implemented is an exercise in tedium repeating trivia or very often "we didn't have time in class today. So for tonight's homework do everything you weren't taught today."
yes... ^^^ Who has time for that? "repeating what you didn't learn in class"
Bit insane, but common in USA EDU.

Hint... don't embrace USA EDU as having the 'correct answers'...
Homework (USA style) may not be too effective (surprise).

There are options!

very simple illustration...(there are many)
(small country with the most Patents / innovation / highest education levels... (and done @ ~50% the cost of USA schools, where infrastructure / security / Wage costs are VERY high!)
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/fun-...-surprise-you/
Education doesn’t focus on exam
Unlike the education system prevalent in most of the world, Israel’s education is quite liberal when it comes to standard exams. They only have one final exam instead of constant tests throughout the year which offers children a relaxed curriculum.
Highest number of university degrees per capita
This country boasts of the highest number of university degrees per capita in the entire world which makes Israel one of the most educated countries, topping the most popular ones that one would think of!
Weapon training is common in school
It might shock most of the world but in school most pupils are trained in the use of firearms. It is a common practice in the school, mostly because after school they go into military training before resuming their education.

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 02-19-2019 at 10:53 AM..
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