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Old 02-19-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
20,908 posts, read 9,772,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
You can do all of those things in school. My third graders are currently doing research and writing five paragraph research reports...in school.

They are not simply spoon fed info all day.
Having direct interaction between teacher and student is not spoon feeding.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
20,908 posts, read 9,772,861 times
Reputation: 19594
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
How many other nations have you taught / worked / lived in?

I (and my company) THRIVE when I can hire a non-USA STEM grad! Yippee, someone who can actually innovate! and be responsible (dependable / self-thinker / DOER) for company progress.

Homework can be done within LONG and boring USA school schedule (I am a 4th gen educator and spend way too much time volunteering in Public Schools.) down time? dead time? WASTED time? ... yup... plenty.

When in college / secondary school you MUST schedule your classes / free hours so you can get homework done at school, as jobs, sports, responsibilities, social activities can ROB all your other hours.

Since I trained my own kids to be responsible self starters (as every parent MUST).. I can't really relate to the idea that Homework is of any value to TEACH students to organize their time and be self starters... What happened to PARENTS? MIA? (just like the "Education" portion (deliverable) of USA Public schools? )

Today (as everyday) I spent $22 on our failed public schools (from only ONE of my 20+ properties).

I spent $3 today to feed my family.

great bargain, great use of funds.

No time (need) for homework... I can do the math, and so can my kids, and employees. (I must make sure of that, because a HS diploma sure doesn't mean they can do math!) No enough home work? Doubt that helped much.
If that's what you spend feeding your family for a whole day, then there's something drastically wrong with the rest of your calculations.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Virginia
8,075 posts, read 12,481,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Having direct interaction between teacher and student is not spoon feeding.
I know. I wasn’t saying it is. My point was that’s not what we do. I was responding to the PP who wrote, “Why do we have homework?
To further our education, to learn to do things on our own and to learn how to read, research, analyze, THINK!”
Students learn to do those things in school.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
20,908 posts, read 9,772,861 times
Reputation: 19594
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
I know. I wasn’t saying it is. My point was that’s not what we do. I was responding to the PP who wrote, “Why do we have homework?
To further our education, to learn to do things on our own and to learn how to read, research, analyze, THINK!”
Students learn to do those things in school.
My apologies. I misread that and jumped to a conclusion.

Here's what I wish some parents would understand. A good plan for homework in social studies (and it also worked for me when teaching science):

For homework, read a section in the text as an introduction to a topic; perhaps write answers to a handful of questions about the reading. The next day in class, discuss and enrich the topic, perhaps bringing in some original sources and debating the topic.

In science, reading the text might be a "pre-lab actvity", then the lab activity in class, finishing the right up to the lab as homework, and then a class discussion on the lab.

And bringing in something another poster wrote about -- some of my science students went home with no significant amount of homework because they wisely used their time in class, while other students were less productive in class, resulting in more time spent on homework.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:45 AM
 
989 posts, read 625,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingvanmorrison View Post
Yes homework is necessary.
It is necessary to do things like read books, write papers, do research. There is no time for all that in school.
I know many people who grew up in "developing" nations and I know their schools did not require they read books or write papers about books or do research papers.
As a result these people are simply not as well educated, they didn't learn to write well or read well or think on their own, analyze books or poetry for instance: to THINK.


If we want to have highly educated students who can excel in science, write books, analyze things, solve problems, then homework and learning to write and think is part of that education.


Why do we have homework?
To further our education, to learn to do things on our own and to learn how to read, research, analyze, THINK!


If you want the USA to become like a developing nation with poor education and people who often don't know how to analyze and think for themselves, then fine: stop having homework.
Interesting....

I know a whole lot of people that grew up in developing nations (not sure why quotation marks are needed) that had a ton of homework that required plenty of reading, writing,projects and research often without the resources and/or time that kids here have. On top of that they had to complete whatever chores they had (feed the animals, cook dinner- after catching and prepping it) and absolutely no adults entertained the idea of not completing homework or school projects.

It is why those kids, frequently come to the US and practically breeze through college. Its simply less work than wherever they came from more often than not.

Having highly educated students doesn’t necessarily require homework- it requires interest, ability and grit. One can learn to analyze, research and “THINK” by trying to catch a specific hen out of 15 that knows its about to die and will do its best to avoid getting caught including alarming the cockerel of the presence of a predator(you). Lots of math, science, and critical thinking is required to complete that feat.

If those people you know, dont know how to think for themselves, analyze, or read- I would think the culprit is probably something more significant than the lack of homework in their schooling.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,887 posts, read 61,546,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
If that's what you spend feeding your family for a whole day, then there's something drastically wrong with the rest of your calculations.
well maybe it was still morning and breakfast was paid for with food stamps
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,887 posts, read 61,546,311 times
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Our younger kids went to a private school run by a lady who dedicated her life to studying the best ways for kids to learn. She had a hand full of PhDs and more importantly over 40 years experience.

She told us that her conclusion was in the early years, there is no reason a teacher cannot teach the kids all they need to learn in the allotted classroom time unless the teacher is incompetent or lazy. All it does is make kids hate school. In upper grade levels homework is necessary to reinforce what is taught in class and to help kids develop necessary skills for the working world. He school prohibited homework through fifth grade. In sixth grade homework was optional. Kids could choose whether they wanted to do it or not. In seventh grade is was allowed but had to be calculated to total no more than 1.5 hours for all classes. By eighth grade on, it was open season, but they still had a time limit per class per week.

We loved that school. Our kids loved going to that school. The kids from that school did very well on average. Better than any public school in the area. When we moved, our kids were considerably ahead of the kids in their highly rated public school. (Of course it all evens out eventually). The elementary school class size of 4-10 students probably helped a lot with that though.
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:07 PM
 
12,572 posts, read 9,650,979 times
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I think homework is not usually very productive, though there are some exceptions on occasion. It should be kept very infrequent in my opinion because it does a lot of damage to otherwise loving parent-child relationships, causing some parents to get way too overbearing and some children to suffer an erosion of ethical integrity that starts with lying about homework but soon turns into a pattern of lying and deception. I think kids need "school-life balance" as much as adults need "work-life balance". Kids are human too!
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:26 PM
 
7,840 posts, read 8,657,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLDSoon View Post
Interesting....

I know a whole lot of people that grew up in developing nations (not sure why quotation marks are needed) that had a ton of homework that required plenty of reading, writing,projects and research often without the resources and/or time that kids here have. On top of that they had to complete whatever chores they had (feed the animals, cook dinner- after catching and prepping it) and absolutely no adults entertained the idea of not completing homework or school projects.

It is why those kids, frequently come to the US and practically breeze through college. Its simply less work than wherever they came from more often than not.

Having highly educated students doesn’t necessarily require homework- it requires interest, ability and grit. One can learn to analyze, research and “THINK” by trying to catch a specific hen out of 15 that knows its about to die and will do its best to avoid getting caught including alarming the cockerel of the presence of a predator(you). Lots of math, science, and critical thinking is required to complete that feat.

If those people you know, dont know how to think for themselves, analyze, or read- I would think the culprit is probably something more significant than the lack of homework in their schooling.
I get what you are saying but the overwhelming majority of kids in developing countries receive grossly-substandard educations by say OECD standards and most of the kids in developing nations who receive good to very good educations by local standards still lag significantly.

So far as homework volume. My son attended Jesuit College Prep here in Dallas. The school is notorious for assigning very little homework, very few projects and there is very little emphasis on "project learning". My son rarely had homework per se but he did study some. The yield is most years every single kids goes to college on time and most do well. And the kids who didn't struggle under the academic demands love the school.

My daughter went to Ursuline Dallas which is well and long known as classical style, homework intensive, pressure cooker of a high school - lots of projects, blizzards of homework, lots writing, with an emphasis on "project learning". The kids who didn't struggle under the academic and work pressures nearly all go to college and do very well but few really love the school part of their school years when finished.

To make matters worse UA is smaller and apparently more selective and almost every year Jesuit has higher SAT and ACT averages.

I'm not sure what the answers are but high volumes of homework don't seem to help.
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:48 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
21,790 posts, read 38,853,599 times
Reputation: 22442
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
If that's what you spend feeding your family for a whole day, then there's something drastically wrong with the rest of your calculations.
tad judgemental (I would say). Worked fine since 1980 (international and USA living)

Part of the 'process' of homework... (teaching kids to be resourceful and to budget). and to cook, grow, slaughter, dress, preserve...

$100 / month goes in the food envelope the first of the month. When the envelope is empty... get creative (look in the chest freezer, head to the garden)

Kids did the meal and budget planning and daily fresh market shopping when were were living overseas (Homework - shopkeepers LOVED it. They spent extra time to instruct our kids! (Other kids were in school doing busy-work)

We frequently feed seniors in our neighborhood and our frequent international guests (within our $100 / month food budget) we eat very well, very healthy! (except for the weekly Homemade ice cream we share with the neighbors and travelers)

Salmon, beef, lamb, pork, venison, bear, berries, fruit, garden produce... is all just outside the backdoor. (or already in the freezer)
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