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Old 02-19-2019, 08:37 PM
 
Location: California
1,027 posts, read 311,300 times
Reputation: 1746

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
My dad was a corporate pilot. So no, he never brought work home. LOL Of course, he was gone a good part of the time, too.

I don't think kids should have homework before high school. But I think the biggest problem in classes right now might be the size of the classroom or disruptive kids, all of which takes away from a teacher's ability to teach anything. If the kids are sitting quietly and paying attention, they learn more much faster than if the teacher has to continually discipline someone in the class. Plus, that's just that much less she can present to the class as a lesson, so they have to make it up in homework.

Computers aside, I also think we're trying to teach 2019 kids with 1950 methods. Maybe we should take a step back and try teaching smarter. The kids today have changed. Maybe it's time the old teaching methods should change as well.

More than anything else, I think a stand needs to be taken. People need to have a strong school board and a strong principal who say "These are the rules regarding uniforms, attendance, passing grades, and behavior. This is what needs to be learned. Don't learn it, you don't pass. Misbehave and you're out of the school. Period. No if, ands, or buts." Then enforce those rules and let every parent and child know those rules will be enforced.
I remember having homework in elementary school back in the late 60ís and early 70ís. I think homework even then was a throwback to the 50ís to keep kids busy after school so they wouldnít end up as juvenile delinquents. He didnít seem to serve any purpose. Iíd finish it as soon as possible so I could go out and play. I had often more homework in elementary and junior high than I did in high school. Itís more like something you just want to get through so youíre not really focusing on it , the content. Itís more like a task.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:01 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
21,790 posts, read 38,853,599 times
Reputation: 22442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
At the end of page 4 here, the fact remains that we are still #36 out of the 36 industrial nations in this world in academic achievement. More than half the comments here advocate for doing less work at skill building. What do you people want? Kids punch a clock, spend X number of hours in the building and clock out. There is very little time in that scenario for practice.

OK, on to pages 5 and 6:
Many of us advocate for students spending NO TIME inside a building, but instead do some work from home (Start a business). Works fine for many thousands of kids every year. Chances are VERY SLIM they can get that level of training from a USA Public School, tho I know a couple teachers and profs who have started viable businesses. I know a LOT more kids that did so.

As mentioned (and statically proven)... these 'unschooled kids' have NO PROBLEM 'punching-the-testing-clock' far in excess of PS students . But...why bother if they have the experience / degrees / social skills to be 'real-live' contributors' to society. (prior to traditional HS graduation).

I have experienced a LOT of academics who can't even begin to exist in real life. (recently finished another grad program + I teach in higher ed in my free time).

hint... academics is WAY overvalued. Look at the success stories of those who flunked out or voluntarily chose to leave school. (that is NOT a bad plan for some, and a very GOOD plan for many) 'high achievers' . Traditional school has no place for the high achiever. It is in fact, a very foreign place for self starters / responsible / capable learners.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:11 PM
 
14,440 posts, read 12,917,440 times
Reputation: 19379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
At the end of page 4 here, the fact remains that we are still #36 out of the 36 industrial nations in this world in academic achievement. More than half the comments here advocate for doing less work at skill building. What do you people want? Kids punch a clock, spend X number of hours in the building and clock out. There is very little time in that scenario for practice.

OK, on to pages 5 and 6:
So, seems the homework is not the solution to raising our rank? Since we have homework yet are still ranked 36 out of 36...
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,125 posts, read 101,074,179 times
Reputation: 32583
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
So, seems the homework is not the solution to raising our rank? Since we have homework yet are still ranked 36 out of 36...
Do YOU have a citation for 36 of 36?
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:52 PM
 
6,411 posts, read 3,432,284 times
Reputation: 16884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Every day? I don't think so!

What sports did your kids do that game nights went so late?
Why is that end time sound so strange? Start at 7 or 730. 80 minute game + half time. That puts the end of the game around 840-9, not counting any OT. Then 30 minutes for the cooldown and post game coach's lecture. Leave the field between 9 and 930. Get home, clean up, puts supper around 10. If the game is away add 1 or 2 hours drive time back from whatever town the game was in. There's nothing unusual there. Even when I was a kid that pretty expected on game night. Biggest difference back then is you only had football, baseball, and basketball and girls only had basketball. And football only played one night a week. Now you have sports that play 2-3 nights a week. And while the boys sports were fairly deconflicted, there were girls playing multiple sports that had to hustle between one and the other on game nights.

I'm also amazed that the daily schedule seems so surprising to folks. There've been books written about how overscheduled today's kids are. The competition for college admissions and funds starts early in today's world. Ours felt that while college material was far more challenging that high school, actual college life was more relaxed.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:26 PM
 
7,840 posts, read 8,657,356 times
Reputation: 6102
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Many of us advocate for students spending NO TIME inside a building, but instead do some work from home (Start a business). Works fine for many thousands of kids every year. Chances are VERY SLIM they can get that level of training from a USA Public School, tho I know a couple teachers and profs who have started viable businesses. I know a LOT more kids that did so.

As mentioned (and statically proven)... these 'unschooled kids' have NO PROBLEM 'punching-the-testing-clock' far in excess of PS students . But...why bother if they have the experience / degrees / social skills to be 'real-live' contributors' to society. (prior to traditional HS graduation).

I have experienced a LOT of academics who can't even begin to exist in real life. (recently finished another grad program + I teach in higher ed in my free time).

hint... academics is WAY overvalued. Look at the success stories of those who flunked out or voluntarily chose to leave school. (that is NOT a bad plan for some, and a very GOOD plan for many) 'high achievers' . Traditional school has no place for the high achiever. It is in fact, a very foreign place for self starters / responsible / capable learners.
Your claims are wildly overstated. Traditional school has a place for most high achievers. My son is a neurosurgery resident there is no way to self teach/boot camp etc. oneself to sort of thing.

I'm an on and off academic myself. Lots of people both inside and outside academia don't function well.

I'd advise decaf for a day or two.
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Old 02-20-2019, 12:35 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
21,790 posts, read 38,853,599 times
Reputation: 22442
I did do a bit of research on the test scores (since School Board uses them as beating sticks for teachers..)

There are VAST statistics illustrating the large disparity of School vs unschooled in TEST achievement. (as if Tests are a gauge of effectiveness)

Interesting that one of mine did neuro too. No k-12 required (or desired). (a waste for many (most))

No homework required. (or desired).. as in USA style 'busy-work'. (Babysitting supplements for underachieving teacher staff, and misinformed administrators (often teachers who failed to teach, so became 'managers') )

Great system... BTDT for generations.


Of course there is a 'place' for everyone somewhere. Congratulations on finding yours.

Actually, I have never needed, desired, or tried caffeine. (Possibly another who is mis-informed) very common in academia (One of the (2)'non-reality' paths through life)
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:03 AM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
10,779 posts, read 5,823,296 times
Reputation: 10544
I hated homework and it wasn't "necessary" for me to maintain my grades. But it did help to ensure that the material stayed fresh, thereby lessening the amount of time I had to study otherwise.
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Old 02-20-2019, 07:46 AM
 
Location: NJ
10,094 posts, read 20,866,546 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
One of the things I hated most about growing up was homework. I did everything I could to avoid doing it, even at the expense of lower grades and getting "yelled at." My reasoning was that school was school, and home was for rest and relaxation. I never saw my parents do any "homework" related to their jobs - work was work, and home was for doing whatever you wanted. Made perfect sense to me.

And to think I had it hard doing 30-45 minutes a night during my high school years - these days, kids are expected to work hours each night after school - and this is after bloated 7-hour plus school days. Good grief, Charlie Brown. And they're assigning homework in kindergarten. If this is not child cruelty, I don't know what is.

School was bad enough - being bored to tears learning stuff that had no bearing on real life, having to deal with yelly teachers and dress codes that made zero sense (no shorts in non-AC buildings - at least that's not an issue in this era...lol.) But having do schoolwork on *my own time* was insult to injury. I could handle school on my own terms - but I truly resented having do perform extra work on top of the school day, when there were so many other things I could be doing, like playing outside or spending time with my family. If they had Internet back then, goodness knows how distraught I'd been having to divert my free time toward homework.

In all seriousness, however, why is homework even necessary? Is the school day not long enough to practice what a student is learning? Maybe they could make the day longer, or better yet, have fewer subjects, and more time within each subject to learn it. And don't get me started about sleep - I just cannot believe that kids today are having to stay up to midnight to complete their onerous assignments. I went to bed at 9 pm sharp each night, because I needed my 9 hours of sleep - any less than that, I was utterly useless the next day. I just don't see how kids of today are able to pull this off. I know I wouldn't.

The floor is open for discussion...
My grandson in kindergarten gets a packet at the beginning of the month to be completed by the end of the month. One assignment per day. Granted it's easy and way too easy for him because he went to preschool for 2 years. It's very hard to get him to do it because he knows it and doesn't want to do it. Now the teacher is sending home a paper that says "homework" on it which I was told by her that it's just for kids that need the extra review which he does not. She said occasionally she will send something home to be signed that he hasn't finished in school. This has been rare.

My biggest gripe is he will learn stuff I never did. It happened with my daughter. I couldn't help her with math (algebra) in 3rd grade on.
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
229 posts, read 99,255 times
Reputation: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You're a "radical thinker" and can't figure it out?

Homework is practice to reinforce what you learned in class.

In case you forgot, classroom time is limited.

If you only spent one minute per day learning how to tie your shoes, it would take you several months to learn. But, if you practiced for as long as you could each day, then you'd learn in a matter of days.
If that's the case, why is it that the typical homeschooler is able to learn grade-appropriate material in about 4 hours a day, including practice time, whereas it takes 7-plus hours of in-school time, plus 2-3 hours of extra work to learn the same material?

Oh yeah, it took me just a few minutes of practice to learn how to tie my shoes. I can remember that quite vividly. I couldn't wait to get home to show my mother my new skill...lol.

When it came to math, it was a case of once I "got it," I was ready to move on. Having to do long division problems over and over, when I already knew how to do it, was mindless drudgery. There was no point in it. My favorite math teacher was the one who lectured for 30 minutes, and then let the students practice for the remaining 20, providing individual assistance as needed. My grade was an A in that class, coming up from C's in prior math classes. Yes, she was that good.
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