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Old 08-04-2022, 05:00 AM
 
6,175 posts, read 6,202,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
How's the recruitment for jobs like that?
They don’t seem to be having trouble recruiting. When you have a family to support and you don’t have other options, you need to take what jobs exist, no matter how bad they are. T
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Old 08-04-2022, 05:21 AM
 
9,007 posts, read 4,978,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
But my point is that, where I live, teachers already have a salary higher than most other professionals, plus all of the benefits that I mentioned, and it still does not attract quality teachers. In fact, it has the opposite effect, of attracting people who are in it for the money, benefits, work-life balance, and short commute.



And it is very frustrating.
In 2022? I would imagine not when many other jobs are fully remote or have hybrid work settings. From what I’ve read, most school districts are really struggling to attract teachers now. Employers are also having to up their other offerings to attract the best candidates. Even if they can’t offer more money, they can offer perks like more paid vacation, a better 401K match, etc.

These days it seems like teachers are blamed for everything. They are expected to make up the losses from the pandemic e-learning times, even though most teachers aren’t trained to teach students via e-learning. They are blamed for things that a very small handful of teachers are doing in the classroom. More likely than not, teachers are not offered salaries even close to comparable to what they’d make in the private sector. There’s a reason people in teaching tend to leave in 5 years.

One thing that has not necessarily been mentioned is that a top teacher may only be a top teacher in certain environments. You may have a teacher doing really well with struggling students in school A but is moved to school B where the administration is not at all supportive and then they decide to call it a day. I knew someone a while back who was fairly new and the district allowed transfers every two years. Since she did well teaching struggling students in one school, 2 years later, they’d transfer her to an even worse school. This pattern continued. She did not leave teaching, but she moved to another district for a significant pay cut because she could apply to a specific job at one school without worrying about being transferred again in one of the largest (if not the largest) school districts geographically in the US. My friend who is a district resource teacher started out in a horrible school and was ready to leave teaching. She had no support from administration. Once she moved and had a supportive principal, she was able to excel and has since gone onto leadership roles.
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Old 08-04-2022, 06:58 AM
 
6,175 posts, read 6,202,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
In 2022? I would imagine not when many other jobs are fully remote or have hybrid work settings.
Yes, in 2022. Most employers where I live are back to full time in the office.

Quote:
From what I’ve read, most school districts are really struggling to attract teachers now.
It depends on the geographic area. Where I live, they have no trouble attracting teachers, and in fact, it's almost impossible to get a job as a teacher.

Quote:
Employers are also having to up their other offerings to attract the best candidates. Even if they can’t offer more money, they can offer perks like more paid vacation, a better 401K match, etc.
I guess it depends on the field and the geographic area. Not happening here. Plus a teacher's pension is worth more than a 401K match anyway, especially since it includes access to cheap health insurance for life at age 55.

Quote:
These days it seems like teachers are blamed for everything. They are expected to make up the losses from the pandemic e-learning times, even though most teachers aren’t trained to teach students via e-learning. They are blamed for things that a very small handful of teachers are doing in the classroom. More likely than not, teachers are not offered salaries even close to comparable to what they’d make in the private sector. There’s a reason people in teaching tend to leave in 5 years.
They get far more than what they'd get in the private sector. You may be comparing them to Wall Street salaries, which is not a fair comparison.

Quote:
One thing that has not necessarily been mentioned is that a top teacher may only be a top teacher in certain environments. You may have a teacher doing really well with struggling students in school A but is moved to school B where the administration is not at all supportive and then they decide to call it a day. I knew someone a while back who was fairly new and the district allowed transfers every two years. Since she did well teaching struggling students in one school, 2 years later, they’d transfer her to an even worse school. This pattern continued. She did not leave teaching, but she moved to another district for a significant pay cut because she could apply to a specific job at one school without worrying about being transferred again in one of the largest (if not the largest) school districts geographically in the US. My friend who is a district resource teacher started out in a horrible school and was ready to leave teaching. She had no support from administration. Once she moved and had a supportive principal, she was able to excel and has since gone onto leadership roles.
That is very true. I mentioned before I that I had a severe personality conflict with my 8th grade math teacher (honors math) even though she was one of the district's most beloved teachers. But if you read reviews of her, all of them say things like how they never understood math until they had her. She was good at teaching struggling students, not honors students, even if she had the math knowledge to teach honors. Whoever chose to have her teach honors completely dropped the ball.
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Old 08-04-2022, 07:08 AM
 
9,007 posts, read 4,978,310 times
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Google news on teacher shortages and recent articles will pop up from all over the country.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educa...cher-shortage/ - hopefully this one is not pay walled.

https://thehill.com/changing-america...cher-shortage/ - this one is more general

Teachers in my hometown can make about $70K MAX after 25 years of experience and a graduate degree. I pointed out earlier that I had a friend with an English degree who tried an alternative certification to teach and ended up going back to her job as a paralegal because she made 50% more. I think she was about 40 and had 15y+ experience as a paralegal. I’m in the IL suburbs now where the pay is high, but I recognize that in the majority of locations, this is not the norm. IIRC, you are in Westchester, which is considered a wealthy area. They have to pay well otherwise people couldn’t afford to live there.
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Old 08-08-2022, 02:10 PM
 
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Thinking about my previous post on the teacher shortage thread made me consider another factor in the challenges of public education in the United States and that is the issue of students in the schoolhouse to jailhouse cycle.

Our city is currently the most deadly in the country and one of the main reasons for that is kids are having shootouts all over the city. The city councilman from the zone where I taught succeeded in getting an ordinance passed last month to hold their parents accountable when juveniles are found in unlawful possession of a firearm.

One of the more frustrating aspects of posting on an education forum is when the issue of parents arises. Tarring all parents with the same brush is useless. But denying that there are entire school zones where parents are demonstrably negligent in their responsibilities towards their children exacerbates the problem. In some cases, the parents are criminals as well and are inculcating their children in the family trades.

One of my perverse practices is that I continue to look at the country inmate list every day. I save the inmate pages for people I know. Today there are two young men who graduated from my old school a few years ago. One of whom I had already saved the page from his previous arrest. From time to time, I will also see an arrest for the parent of a student. It's an interesting way to keep my finger on the pulse of the city and it gives me an insight I wouldn't get any other way.

I used the say all the time that the problems in District X Public Schools didn't start in District X Public Schools and can't be solved by District X Public Schools. Even so, teachers who are aware of conflicts in the community can sometimes help prevent an issue if they can alert an administrator before the students and their parents bring the conflict into the school. Yet the simple fact that we have so many conflicts that still get out of hand is a factor in the Failure of U. S. Public Education.
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Old 08-08-2022, 02:50 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
22,111 posts, read 13,691,310 times
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Interestingly, in Marcus Aurelius' book "Meditations" one of the things he admonishes caring responsible parents to do is to stay away from the public education system and to employ private tutors for their children. He credits his great grandfather for that advice.
Marcus Aurelius was Emperor of Rome in about 160CE. Maybe not much has changed in 2000 years.

Quote:
#4 My Great Grandfather:
To avoid the public schools, to hire good private teachers, and to accept the resulting costs as money well spent.
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Old 08-08-2022, 03:10 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Northern Appalachia
8,859 posts, read 8,945,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
One of my perverse practices is that I continue to look at the country inmate list every day. I save the inmate pages for people I know. Today there are two young men who graduated from my old school a few years ago. One of whom I had already saved the page from his previous arrest. From time to time, I will also see an arrest for the parent of a student. It's an interesting way to keep my finger on the pulse of the city and it gives me an insight I wouldn't get any other way.
I'm guessing you meant county inmate list. If so, I've never heard of this. Do they actually publish a list of all the county jail inmates? Does it include their sentence and what their crime was?
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Old 08-08-2022, 03:23 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
8,999 posts, read 13,079,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Interestingly, in Marcus Aurelius' book "Meditations" one of the things he admonishes caring responsible parents to do is to stay away from the public education system and to employ private tutors for their children. He credits his great grandfather for that advice.
Marcus Aurelius was Emperor of Rome in about 160CE. Maybe not much has changed in 2000 years.
I love that you cite this.

But, to be fair, there was no widespread public education system in pre-industrial times; Marcus Aurelius was probably referring to the various philosophical schools in cities like Athens, Rome, Alexandria, even Nikopolis of Epirus, whose students were the otherwise idle sons of aristocrats.

Nonetheless, point well taken.
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Old 08-08-2022, 03:59 PM
 
3,738 posts, read 3,684,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
I'm guessing you meant county inmate list. If so, I've never heard of this. Do they actually publish a list of all the county jail inmates? Does it include their sentence and what their crime was?
I hate that I didn't catch my typo before I posted.

Yes, our county has a searchable inmate database for each person booked in overnight. I don't see the ones who post bond before the end of the day. It's an arrest record, so no sentence, but the charges are listed, along with the inmate's address, date of birth, and cell number. There is supposed to be a photo, but many times it doesn't display.

I see someone I know often enough to keep me going back every day. I started doing this when our son went to jail a few days after his 18th birthday. He turns 32 in a few weeks. I've seen a lot of familiar faces over the years.

The most shocking was when I was teaching geometry after over 20 years of teaching nothing but French. Over the Christmas holiday I saw my mentor, a teacher who had come in drunk or hungover one morning (apparently not unusual for him), gotten into it with a student, and chased him down the hall while stripping down to his skivvies. He didn't get arrested that day, but I'm pretty sure it was for that charge. He was in jail for quite some time before he was released. Although he was relieved of teaching his geometry classes, he was not dismissed from the district until the following year.

Teacher shortages, you know. This guy had a Ph. D. but no math certification. His license is listed as social studies non-renewable, expiring in 2024.

As far as the county inmate database, that random reinforcement keeps me coming back every day. Never know who I'll see tomorrow!
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Old 08-11-2022, 03:38 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
40,895 posts, read 53,077,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
I'm guessing you meant county inmate list. If so, I've never heard of this. Do they actually publish a list of all the county jail inmates? Does it include their sentence and what their crime was?
They do somewhat similar here in SoMD. The online news outlets posts the arrests, charges and photos of those arrested the previous week every Friday or Saturday.

The State has a database where you can search for all Court cases filed against an individual, but you need the person's name.
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