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Old 10-19-2022, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,303 posts, read 23,903,054 times
Reputation: 32621

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
We had an art teacher at our school who really boosted the program, a member of the local craftsman's guild, who took her students to sales where they could see the economic value of their art. She was also a long-time bartender in a series of upscale restaurants.

We had a principal who would harass her for missing afterschool faculty meetings. The teacher would ask her if she was getting paid to attend the meetings. Of course, she was not, and the teacher would answer that she was going to the job that paid her money to be there. The principal once replied that she needed to think about which job offered her the most benefits, thinking of course that it would be teaching.

During the summer, the teacher called me on her way into the Public Employees' Retirement office to check on her pension eligibility. Her bartending job had just offered her benefits to go full time. After learning that she could get another quarter of retirement if she worked the first six weeks of the school year, she put in her resignation, telling the principal, "I had to think about which job offered me the most benefits."

We lost a great art teacher, and the principal had to replace her in the middle of the year. I will always remember how she kept the upper hand.
Hold on here...the faculty meetings were held outside of the regular school day for teachers (not the school day for students)?

For example, our regular school day for students was approximately 6.5 hours. For teachers the regular work day was designated as 7.5 hours. Our faculty meetings were held -- as short as possible, and only when needed -- in that 6.5-7.5 hour. And believe it or not, from some teachers we got complaints that we didn't have enough faculty meetings.
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Old 10-19-2022, 12:04 PM
 
4,359 posts, read 4,200,847 times
Reputation: 5800
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Hold on here...the faculty meetings were held outside of the regular school day for teachers (not the school day for students)?

For example, our regular school day for students was approximately 6.5 hours. For teachers the regular work day was designated as 7.5 hours. Our faculty meetings were held -- as short as possible, and only when needed -- in that 6.5-7.5 hour. And believe it or not, from some teachers we got complaints that we didn't have enough faculty meetings.
No effective unions here, so yes, afterschool meetings were standard for some principals. The other options were before school, when students still had to be supervised and meetings would often run over into first period, and planning period meetings which sucked up every available minute of time.

Of course, once Zoom came along, the number of meetings soared. It was as if there was a competition to see how many meetings we could do in one day. I remember a day with FOUR meetings. It was insane.

The principal in the art teacher story also had a propensity for scheduling an unpaid day the day before our contracts began. The art teacher also skipped those. One year our contracts were very late, and she made us come the day after our contracts ended to sign our contracts for the next year. Some teachers had to delay their summer vacations or wait until they got back to sign their contracts.

It's amazing that there are administrators who don't understand that they cannot effectively achieve their objectives when they alienate the very people they are relying on to get their objectives met! It's a shame that I worked for so few who empowered their teachers carry out their vision.
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Old 10-19-2022, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,303 posts, read 23,903,054 times
Reputation: 32621
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
No effective unions here, so yes, afterschool meetings were standard for some principals. The other options were before school, when students still had to be supervised and meetings would often run over into first period, and planning period meetings which sucked up every available minute of time.

Of course, once Zoom came along, the number of meetings soared. It was as if there was a competition to see how many meetings we could do in one day. I remember a day with FOUR meetings. It was insane.

The principal in the art teacher story also had a propensity for scheduling an unpaid day the day before our contracts began. The art teacher also skipped those. One year our contracts were very late, and she made us come the day after our contracts ended to sign our contracts for the next year. Some teachers had to delay their summer vacations or wait until they got back to sign their contracts.

It's amazing that there are administrators who don't understand that they cannot effectively achieve their objectives when they alienate the very people they are relying on to get their objectives met! It's a shame that I worked for so few who empowered their teachers carry out their vision.
I don't think you answered my question.

Required meetings were held outside of the teacher's contact day?
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Old 10-19-2022, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,019 posts, read 7,161,256 times
Reputation: 17116
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
We had an art teacher at our school who really boosted the program, a member of the local craftsman's guild, who took her students to sales where they could see the economic value of their art. She was also a long-time bartender in a series of upscale restaurants.

We had a principal who would harass her for missing afterschool faculty meetings. The teacher would ask her if she was getting paid to attend the meetings. Of course, she was not, and the teacher would answer that she was going to the job that paid her money to be there. The principal once replied that she needed to think about which job offered her the most benefits, thinking of course that it would be teaching.

During the summer, the teacher called me on her way into the Public Employees' Retirement office to check on her pension eligibility. Her bartending job had just offered her benefits to go full time. After learning that she could get another quarter of retirement if she worked the first six weeks of the school year, she put in her resignation, telling the principal, "I had to think about which job offered me the most benefits."

We lost a great art teacher, and the principal had to replace her in the middle of the year. I will always remember how she kept the upper hand.
We are experiencing the same kind of thing at the school I work for. My department recently lost a Geography instructor because she started her own business and realized if she did it full time she could make at least 30% more than her salary. During the recession there was more of a defensive silo mindset. I remember thinking that a job that came with health insurance was gold and you hold onto it with a kung fu grip. Now that feeling is not so prominent, and people are open to exploring all kinds of options.
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Old 10-20-2022, 06:40 AM
 
4,359 posts, read 4,200,847 times
Reputation: 5800
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't think you answered my question.

Required meetings were held outside of the teacher's contact day?
Sorry I was unclear. After school meetings were held after contract hours. Not every principal, but more often than not.
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Old 10-20-2022, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,303 posts, read 23,903,054 times
Reputation: 32621
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
Sorry I was unclear. After school meetings were held after contract hours. Not every principal, but more often than not.
Wow. In 33 years in education I never experienced that, except once in what was perceived to be an emergency situation. Of course there was Back To School Night (although teachers' hours were shortened the week of that). And in one district in NYS I was REQUIRED to chaperone some football games and a few other student activities.

I guess the problem is that is many (maybe most or all) districts there is a clause in the contract that says something to the effect of "and other duties as assigned by the principal".
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Old 10-20-2022, 08:25 AM
 
7,395 posts, read 3,569,574 times
Reputation: 14070
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
We are experiencing the same kind of thing at the school I work for. My department recently lost a Geography instructor because she started her own business and realized if she did it full time she could make at least 30% more than her salary.
That's the beauty of our economic system. By starting her own business that generates profit, she helps drive the nation's GDP and GDP per capita higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
During the recession there was more of a defensive silo mindset. I remember thinking that a job that came with health insurance was gold and you hold onto it with a kung fu grip. Now that feeling is not so prominent, and people are open to exploring all kinds of options.
That is one good thing about Obamacare - pretty much anyone can buy a health insurance policy.
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Old 10-24-2022, 08:07 AM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,564 posts, read 16,631,798 times
Reputation: 29711
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What happens in New York City is not necessarily representative of the rest of the country.
One of my wife's and mine close friend's daughters teaches at an inner-city school in the Bronx. On Thursday a "student" turned off the light switch and overturned a garbage pail. In another classroom one "student" held down another,flailing away with his fists. Parents in both cases were called and either no one answered the phone or they either didn't speak English or pretended not to understand.

As Kurt Vonnegut would say "so it goes."
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Old 10-24-2022, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,303 posts, read 23,903,054 times
Reputation: 32621
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
One of my wife's and mine close friend's daughters teaches at an inner-city school in the Bronx. On Thursday a "student" turned off the light switch and overturned a garbage pail. In another classroom one "student" held down another,flailing away with his fists. Parents in both cases were called and either no one answered the phone or they either didn't speak English or pretended not to understand.

As Kurt Vonnegut would say "so it goes."
I don't understand the point of this post.
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Old 10-24-2022, 04:59 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,564 posts, read 16,631,798 times
Reputation: 29711
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't understand the point of this post.
Just another example of a dedicated professional whose efforts are being frustrated by lack of administration and parental support.
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