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Old Yesterday, 02:12 PM
 
8,845 posts, read 5,956,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkinson View Post
As it is, everybody and their mom can go to college, as a result, student debt is insane and lots of people are just dumb and shouldn't be in college at all. What if there were far stricter requirements, say only the smartest most intelligent people were allowed to go to college? Kind of like how it was back in the day?
Not everyone needs college.

We need people in the trades. High paying jobs
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Old Yesterday, 02:25 PM
 
25,495 posts, read 27,868,995 times
Reputation: 23804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Most colleges/universities are non-profit or government (state) run.
By the strictest definition, that's true.

However, while the poster didn't express the sentiment very well, I think what he/she was getting at is a lot of people are making their living off of marginal students who probably shouldn't be in college. That sentiment is correct. And, by the way, the student loan lenders, do, indeed, earn profits; so the comment wasn't totally off base.
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Old Yesterday, 02:32 PM
 
25,495 posts, read 27,868,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Colleges should return to being educational institutions, for the level of student who qualifies in a broad intellectual and goal sense, with specialized schools (med, law) teaching the pinnacle of students who qualified for those specialties. Period.

Job tickets, whether for HVAC or IT, should be issued by a lower tier of schools, accessible to a much wider range of students, without dressing up what is basically trade training in educational trappings. This can be fulfilled by the existing tier of community and junior colleges through a large number of "universities" restructured to the task.

Athletic budgets should be limited to 5% of the overall school budget and oriented toward students who want to play, not budding pros who need a farm system, and not as a marketing arm to sweep in as many high-profit students as possible.
Excellent points.

Unfortunately, it won't happen until/unless there's some major calamity of some sort.
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Old Yesterday, 03:37 PM
 
7,903 posts, read 8,718,529 times
Reputation: 6180
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000 View Post
What do you mean?
Only that tnff has extensive formal education and the broad definition of liberal arts leads to lots of confusion sometimes even acrimony.

IIRC tnff is a physicist. To him math and physics aren't liberal arts.
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Old Yesterday, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
5,901 posts, read 2,087,015 times
Reputation: 9152
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
Not everyone needs college.

We need people in the trades. High paying jobs
Quite true. However, we've managed to sell ourselves a bill of goods to the effect that you can't fix a diesel truck without a four-year degree.
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Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM
 
Location: California
30,304 posts, read 32,939,496 times
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Yes. That + reworking what type of things colleges teach should be a priority.
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Old Yesterday, 05:03 PM
 
110 posts, read 28,223 times
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People in high-paying jobs do not always pan out. Many of us out here in the group of "average and low IQ," no matter how much education or even training for trades will not be able to manage ourselves to the liking of mainstream society. You can talk STEM, doctor/law or any high paying profession - yeah, sure. The 70-85 IQ range folks will have a tough time getting into those if at all. So then it all goes back to what do you do with your "underperforming" citizens (lowest class whites, blacks and Hispanics... of course whites and Hispanics do better than blacks). The underperformers are in situations of government dependency and homelesses for a reason. Wonder why that is, huh?

Because being below average is a huge handicap and extremely difficult to overcome. Just walk around town being yourself as a person with challenges and you will be automatically associated with the rest of the low IQ 70-85 range population... and in black culture, either you are in the crowd of doctors/lawyers and few other high paying professions such as sports/music/television/movies or you will most likely be nothing, because the trades (plumbing, construction, retail, etc.) are seen as the equivalent to the white society "trailer trash." Yes, there are probably a couple exceptions to the norm. What it amounts to is that you are either rich or in the gutter. There is just no in-between. This is just another reason why so many "average" blacks are left out and on the streets and will fail at every level of mainstream society. Hispanics - those who are white-Hispanic with European physical traits - fair much better in modest lifestyles because they can fit in as likeminded people with similar cultures. This is as well for Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Filipino, etc) even without high test scores. It is time to stop playing nice. The "lower than average" folks especially do not, and will never naturally fit in the way mainstream society wants us to, certainly not by somehow magically becoming likeminded in our politics and/or similar in culture to everyone else.
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Old Yesterday, 05:05 PM
 
18 posts, read 607 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkinson View Post
As it is, everybody and their mom can go to college, as a result, student debt is insane and lots of people are just dumb and shouldn't be in college at all. What if there were far stricter requirements, say only the smartest most intelligent people were allowed to go to college? Kind of like how it was back in the day?
Back in the day, state residents could almost take for granted admission to their state flagship schools, if they got decent grades. AFAIK, all the state flagships are much more competitive now. Berkeley, for example, is insanely competitive. Even students with above a 4.0 aren't assured of getting in!

OTOH, students who had a parent or older sibling attend college, even an ivy league school, can skate in on a "legacy" admission, no matter how bad their grades. Maybe that's what gave you the impression that everyone and his mom can get in.

I think it's a more complex issue than you're imagining.
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Old Yesterday, 05:10 PM
 
1,077 posts, read 507,415 times
Reputation: 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Only that tnff has extensive formal education and the broad definition of liberal arts leads to lots of confusion sometimes even acrimony.

IIRC tnff is a physicist. To him math and physics aren't liberal arts.
I have extensive formal education. That doesn't give me or tnff the ability to change definitions.
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Old Yesterday, 05:10 PM
 
18 posts, read 607 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
There are extremely strict standards today. Only they're based on race and ethnicity, not academics. Caucasians and Asians are actually underrepresented at many universities.
Fact is, at many West coast universities, Asians and Caucs dominate the campuses. Asians ace the admissions requirements, so it's pretty much no contest, there. Take a look at the stats, before you present hypotheticals as fact.
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