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Old 04-11-2019, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
43,698 posts, read 35,111,319 times
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OP, as the mother of a son who is dyslexic and who was in 504 plans in public schools his entire school career, I understand your frustrations and questions.

My son is now 32 and happily married and supporting himself and his family (his wife also works - I mean they are a team and not relying on outside help). He has dyslexia and also an IQ of 135. So talk about frustrations!!!!

If I had a dollar for every parent teacher conference I've been part of, I could take a pretty nice vacation.

Under 504 guidelines, he was accommodated at about the same level you are requesting the teachers to stick to. Personally I don't find these accommodations to be out of line or to the point of needing special education instead of 504. Like your son, my son got most of these accommodations. However, when it came to Language Arts courses in high school, he was taken out of the regular English classes and took a class specifically for students with dyslexia and other related learning disabilities. Otherwise he was mainstreamed and did pretty well.

Please keep us updated on the plans for next year! And good luck.

Oh, by the way, my son has navigated adulthood pretty well, including the work place. And he still struggles with reading, with forms, spelling, etc. He always will. But he just tells his coworkers that he is dyslexic. I never felt like any of his accommodations in school were "crutches." But it was very helpful for him to go to a different sort of class for Language Arts.

His favorite author by the way is Lewis Carroll.

 
Old 04-11-2019, 08:26 AM
Status: "PSALM 91" (set 7 days ago)
 
3,951 posts, read 3,172,213 times
Reputation: 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
OP, as the mother of a son who is dyslexic and who was in 504 plans in public schools his entire school career, I understand your frustrations and questions.

My son is now 32 and happily married and supporting himself and his family (his wife also works - I mean they are a team and not relying on outside help). He has dyslexia and also an IQ of 135. So talk about frustrations!!!!

If I had a dollar for every parent teacher conference I've been part of, I could take a pretty nice vacation.

Under 504 guidelines, he was accommodated at about the same level you are requesting the teachers to stick to. Personally I don't find these accommodations to be out of line or to the point of needing special education instead of 504. Like your son, my son got most of these accommodations. However, when it came to Language Arts courses in high school, he was taken out of the regular English classes and took a class specifically for students with dyslexia and other related learning disabilities. Otherwise he was mainstreamed and did pretty well.

Please keep us updated on the plans for next year! And good luck.

Oh, by the way, my son has navigated adulthood pretty well, including the work place. And he still struggles with reading, with forms, spelling, etc. He always will. But he just tells his coworkers that he is dyslexic. I never felt like any of his accommodations in school were "crutches." But it was very helpful for him to go to a different sort of class for Language Arts.

His favorite author by the way is Lewis Carroll.
Yes this makes sense because we live in the same state.

I think although well intentioned there has been too much time spent on 504 vs. IEP. If the teacher thought my son was on the wrong pathway, she easily could have said something to me or the admins. Goodness knows there have been enough opportunities. I could happily join you on that nice vacation.

Nice to hear about your son. My son has a similar IQ and I know exactly what you mean.

I wish there were a separate ELA class for dyslexics but AFAIK there is not. I think the district does much more intervention in the early grades so that by HS students have fewer needs, but because we came from a state that didn't do anything for these kids, my son doesn't have that same background.

I have been told that to be placed in classes with co teachers, and also to be exempted from Algebra 2 and allowed to take a different math class, he needs the IEP. So that's why we are going that route. He will also be exempted from taking further foreign language classes. He has 2 years but not of the same language.

In any case, agree about accommodations not being crutches. If you can't see, you get eyeglasses.
No one goes around telling people to "try harder" to see clearly, or calls eyeglasses "crutches". An audiobook or a word processor or what have you is no different.

Last edited by calgirlinnc; 04-11-2019 at 08:55 AM..
 
Old 04-11-2019, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
43,698 posts, read 35,111,319 times
Reputation: 61659
Quote:
Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
Yes this makes sense because we live in the same state.

I think although well intentioned there has been too much time spent on 504 vs. IEP. If the teacher get my son was on the wrong pathway, she easily could have said something to me or the admins. Goodness knows there have been enough opportunities. I could happily join you on that nice vacation.

Nice to hear about your son. My son has a similar IQ and I know exactly what you mean.

I wish there were a separate ELA class for dyslexics but AFAIK there is not. I think the district does much more intervention in the early grades so that by HS students have fewer needs, but because we came from a state that didn't do anything for these kids, my son doesn't have that same background.

I have been told that to be placed in classes with co teachers, and also to be exempted from Algebra 2 and allowed to take a different math class, he needs the IEP. So that's why we are going that route. He will also be exempted from taking further foreign language classes. He has 2 years but not of the same language.

In any case, agree about accommodations not being crutches. If you can't see, you get eyeglasses.
No one goes around telling people to "try harder" to see clearly, or calls eyeglasses "crutches". An audiobook or a word processor or what have you is no different.
True, true, true! On all counts.

My son was in high school nearly 20 years ago (hard to believe) so I am sure things have changed. And yes, he grew up attending Texas schools so he did get a lot of 504 support throughout his school career. But at the time (and maybe this has changed) the school district did offer him classes that were not "special education" but were geared toward those with learning disabilities, especially dyslexia since it is a very common learning disability, in Language Arts specifically. Gosh, I hope they still offer those classes.

He was very lucky to have teachers in Science and History (those are the ones I remember most clearly) who accommodated his testing and learning needs and styles. However, he always struggled with Math.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 08:43 AM
Status: "PSALM 91" (set 7 days ago)
 
3,951 posts, read 3,172,213 times
Reputation: 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post

Part of it very well may be that she wants your son to make those requests, not you. He is at the age where he needs to learn to self-advocate, if he doesn’t learn he’ll never be a truly independent adult. That is part of the reasoning behind why they start including students in IEP meeting when they turn 14.
My son has attended all his 504 meetings and this year he spoke passionately and convincingly about why he needs oral testing and alternate assignments that are not writing based. He completely changed his science teacher's understanding of him and she immediately changed her approach and his grade went to an A. Unfortunately, she was the only teacher there.

I have spoken extensively with his counselor and the assistant principals about self-advocating and how it is important, but even then they agree that it really isn't until senior year that most students are mature enough and confident enough to do this regularly or effectively.

Furthermore, whether the teacher wants my son to ask or not is irrelevant. These are the things that the school has agreed to, and she is required to do them just like all of his other teachers. If the other teachers can do it, so can she. It is also unreasonable for her to require my son to ask for each accommodation, each time he needs it. Frankly I would find it disruptive to the rest of the class.

Last edited by calgirlinnc; 04-11-2019 at 08:54 AM..
 
Old 04-11-2019, 08:49 AM
Status: "PSALM 91" (set 7 days ago)
 
3,951 posts, read 3,172,213 times
Reputation: 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
True, true, true! On all counts.

My son was in high school nearly 20 years ago (hard to believe) so I am sure things have changed. And yes, he grew up attending Texas schools so he did get a lot of 504 support throughout his school career. But at the time (and maybe this has changed) the school district did offer him classes that were not "special education" but were geared toward those with learning disabilities, especially dyslexia since it is a very common learning disability, in Language Arts specifically. Gosh, I hope they still offer those classes.

He was very lucky to have teachers in Science and History (those are the ones I remember most clearly) who accommodated his testing and learning needs and styles. However, he always struggled with Math.
As you know, so much of that in Texas depends on the particular ISD. I'm not sure if there are specific "dyslexia" classes but I'll find out. It seems odd no one would have mentioned that before now, but you never know. I hear great things about Lovejoy ISD but it was too far from my husband's job. However, our ISD has some other strong points, especially in CTE so it all evens out in the end.

Anyway, yes math is torturous. Oddly enough, my son excels in history.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 08:58 AM
 
97 posts, read 137,986 times
Reputation: 121
I have dyslexia and both my kids have dyslexia. I taught my kids how to read and write, so my son ended up being able to fly under the radar until 9th grade. His reading and writing have always been above grade level, so it is mostly organization, working speed and spelling that have been a problem for him. He's in AP English and would benefit from receiving accommodations in that class, but it isn't happening and there doesn't seem to be much we can do about it.

My experience is the 504 is mostly good for extra time on college boards exams, but otherwise, very few teachers will allow a student to use accommodations to get an A or B in the class. They don't feel it is fair to them and the other students, so they make it nearly impossible for a student to use them. A common tactic seems to be to have a sub on a major test and so if your child asks for extra time, the sub refuses it because they have no knowledge about this or authority to grant extra time. By the time the test is finally graded, the marking period is past and there isn't much one can do about it. It very much seems like the accommodations may only be used to prevent the student from failing and the teacher will intimidate and insult a student that self advocates.

My attempts to meet with the AP about this have always ended with the teacher academically sabotaging one of my son's major assignments afterwards, so we've found it is best to focus on what is within your child's control. In my son's case, it is very clear that they don't want the accommodations followed and they don't want to get caught not following them and they have a decent amount of experience in that department.

Last edited by wildflower_FL; 04-11-2019 at 09:28 AM..
 
Old 04-11-2019, 09:29 AM
 
10,724 posts, read 8,184,819 times
Reputation: 26808
While it's understandable that some students will need accomodations, the school subject of English is very intertwined with reading and writing.

How can skills be truly assessed when students are allowed to not read or write? That 's the conundrum for English teachers.

Honestly, wouldn't most students pass if they could listen to a book on tape and then verbally parrot back what they heard?

I can see both sides of this. I do get that the school has to comply.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 10:13 AM
 
36,917 posts, read 14,233,228 times
Reputation: 23394
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
While it's understandable that some students will need accomodations, the school subject of English is very intertwined with reading and writing.

How can skills be truly assessed when students are allowed to not read or write? That 's the conundrum for English teachers.

Honestly, wouldn't most students pass if they could listen to a book on tape and then verbally parrot back what they heard?

I can see both sides of this. I do get that the school has to comply.
I am puzzling this myself.

As I understand it, he is in a HS English glass where due to a transferred 504 plan from a middle school in another state, he should not be required to read, write, or complete assignments.

I understand that has been diagnosed with dyslexia, dysgraphia, and General Anxiety Disorder, but whether he has and IEP or a 504 plan, what is the point of having him mainstreamed in a regular English class if he doesn't read, write, or complete assignments?

Why is he not in a classroom that can help him develop skills to deal with his disabilities?

As I understand it, one of the reasons for moving was to get SpEd services he wasn't getting in the old state. Simply not reading, writing, or completing assignments seems to miss the point here.

What am I not understanding?
 
Old 04-11-2019, 11:53 AM
Status: "PSALM 91" (set 7 days ago)
 
3,951 posts, read 3,172,213 times
Reputation: 5157
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
I am puzzling this myself.

As I understand it, he is in a HS English glass where due to a transferred 504 plan from a middle school in another state, he should not be required to read, write, or complete assignments.

I understand that has been diagnosed with dyslexia, dysgraphia, and General Anxiety Disorder, but whether he has and IEP or a 504 plan, what is the point of having him mainstreamed in a regular English class if he doesn't read, write, or complete assignments?

Why is he not in a classroom that can help him develop skills to deal with his disabilities?

As I understand it, one of the reasons for moving was to get SpEd services he wasn't getting in the old state. Simply not reading, writing, or completing assignments seems to miss the point here.

What am I not understanding?
No, he does *not* have a transferred 504. That is incorrect. He had nothing in our old state.

In our new state, he started HS, and they wrote up a 504 which is within the norms of our state.

I would absolutely love for him to be in a classroom that addresses his needs and help him "develop skills."

Also he read, written, and completed assignments all year.
 
Old 04-11-2019, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
43,698 posts, read 35,111,319 times
Reputation: 61659
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
While it's understandable that some students will need accomodations, the school subject of English is very intertwined with reading and writing.

How can skills be truly assessed when students are allowed to not read or write? That 's the conundrum for English teachers.

Honestly, wouldn't most students pass if they could listen to a book on tape and then verbally parrot back what they heard?

I can see both sides of this. I do get that the school has to comply.
My son doesn't read a lot, because due to his dyslexia it is such a struggle for him that he loses the context of what the book or article is conveying. But he does watch documentaries all the time and he LOVES history. He's actually a very informed adult male, moreso than lots of people who aren't dyslexic.

The thing about dyslexia is that it makes reading and writing very difficult - but it is absolutely no indication of intelligence or mental aptitude other than in the areas of reading or writing.

My son attended Language Arts classes geared toward those with dyslexia, in public school, throughout his school years.

As for "most students passing" if they could "listen to a book on tape and then verbally parrot back what they heard" - all I can tell you is that there are many different learning styles. For instance, I can't STAND watching videos or listening to tape recordings. Nothing would put me to sleep faster. I learn best via the written word, and I'm not at all sure that I'd learn a thing from a video or a book on tape. When I was taking history in college, the professor's preferred style was lectures. I had to write down every salient point or it just didn't stick. But I can assure you that my son would have not written down a word and been able to "parrot back" everything - and would have probably made a better grade in there than I did!

The point is that kids learn a topic. And to be clear, I get what you're saying about some English classes (English literature possibly excepted, because it's entirely possible to learn and understand and appreciate a book on tape in my opinion). I believe that an alternative Language Arts class could be beneficial - as it was for my son.

I'll give you another example from my own life - math. I HATE MATH. I am fine with basic math, but when we get into theories and missing elements and formulas and all that - OMG, I hate it. I don't do well in it either. I have never managed to get past Algebra 2 and to be honest, I don't even know how I passed that. But if you want beans in a jar guessed accurately, or sales tax in four different currencies quickly figured out, I'm your gal. So I consider myself sort of an idiot savante in math - emphasis on the idiot part. But I'm glad it was always such a struggle for me (after about 5th grade) because it gave me empathy when I had a son with dyslexia.
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