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Old 04-20-2019, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
6,427 posts, read 2,259,732 times
Reputation: 10029

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
You are smart person with a dysfunctional worldview.
Why, thanks. But 'dysfunction' is in the eye of the observer. That I see our entire socioeconomic system as sick and broken for the most base, greedy and self-serving reasons probably puts me in the DysFunc crowd over in the Econ class wing. Funny how I see defenders of the true faith as deluded, dogmatized and dysfunctional in the extreme, isn't it?

Quote:
You might want to rollback the cynicism dial a touch. The fact is life in The US offers a spectacular array of educational pathways. Simply put people should stop crying and try a little.
If you are unable to distinguish between education and job training, you probably can't adequately define cynicism, either, except as some form of economic apostasy. Thanks for playing.
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:54 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,401 posts, read 1,007,129 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
You're not talking about accounting, which is the mechanical exercise of money tracking. You're talking about consumer economics, which along with any kind of real critical thinking has been poorly taught if at all for several decades.
Quote:
You're not talking about accounting, which is the mechanical exercise of money tracking.
Then what is the difference between bookkeeping and accounting.

Now we have computers to do the dirty work. Call what is left whatever you want. But people did not buy automobiles when accounting was invented. How much do Americans lose on the Depreciation of that junk every year?

Our economists do not do economics since they do not compute and report depreciation of durable consumer goods. Consumers doing their accounting would have to be aware of that.

How much of GDP is just consumers replacing garbage they bought before?

Deciding what "education" is, is certainly a problem. I asked a PhD economist to explain how an automobile engine worked. He could not do it. Like he could recognize planned obsolescence decades after the Moon landing.

Last edited by psikeyhackr; 04-20-2019 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
6,427 posts, read 2,259,732 times
Reputation: 10029
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
Our economists do not do economics since they do not compute and report depreciation of durable consumer goods. Consumers doing their accounting would have to be aware of that.
Most consumers don't care about the depreciation of their appliances and not much more about their cars. You're confusing a business/tax/accounting issue with something that applies much to the average family budget. Depreciation is largely a tax fiction; since families don't get to write off accumulated depreciation on their washing machine, it's pretty much irrelevant.

Quote:
How much of GDP is just consumers replacing garbage they bought before?
That's an entirely different question having little to do with accounting or depreciation. It is squarely in the realm of consumer economics. Consumers - families - make decisions and financial moves for vastly different reasons than do business and industry.

Quote:
Deciding what "education" is, is certainly a problem.
Not really. The problem is confusing education - a never-ending process of better understanding our world, to increase the collective balance of critical judgment and effective decision-making, if nothing else - with trade-school job training.

That we have lost this distinction and think a "college" education is needed to be a trained worker is one of the most alarming symptoms of our problems.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:00 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,401 posts, read 1,007,129 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Most consumers don't care about the depreciation of their appliances and not much more about their cars. You're confusing a business/tax/accounting issue with something that applies much to the average family budget. Depreciation is largely a tax fiction; since families don't get to write off accumulated depreciation on their washing machine, it's pretty much irrelevant.
There were 200,000,000 cars in the US in 1994. At $1,500 of depreciation per car per year that would be $300,000,000,000 per year.

When Henry Ford introduced the Model-T in 1908 it sold for $850. But he kept making the same car year after year and the price went down to $300.

Our brilliant economist don't talk about planned obsolescence either. They also do not suggest mandatory accounting in the schools. If American consumers had been reducing that depreciation by refusing to buy useless variations in crapmobiles since 1960 how much more NET WORTH would most Americans have by now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtJXl6pk0Z4

How often do economists talk about consumers being "rational"? Wouldn't mandatory accounting be rational?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r...l-behavior.asp

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...hoices/267255/
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:14 AM
 
6 posts, read 470 times
Reputation: 10
Very knowledgeable thread .
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:05 AM
 
Location: midwest
1,401 posts, read 1,007,129 times
Reputation: 834
If we created a National Recommended Reading List would "rights" be an issue?

My mother taught me to read when I was 3. I don't really remember that but I know I was reading when I was 4. But how is a kid supposed to have any idea what to read and what is interesting and informative? I didn't find anything I really liked reading until I was 9, so it was like 5 years wasted.

I read this at 9:

Star Surgeon by Alan Edward Nourse

The Project Gutenberg eBook of Star Surgeon, by Alan E. Nourse.

That is where the name Dal Timgar came from.

But if all kids could easily find worthwhile books and not have to wade through tons of crap how would the question of "rights" matter? What would the cost of self-education be? How many professional educators would not even like the idea?

Maybe we should just have a testing service where you walk in, pay to take a test and you get the credit hours if you pass and the grade goes into a national transcript that you can permit a prospective employer to access. If someone can learn a subject without school fine. Paying educators should be separate from testing. Teachers could rent classrooms and better teachers would get more students. Crappy teachers would learn they need to find another profession.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:24 AM
 
7,967 posts, read 8,800,406 times
Reputation: 6258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Why, thanks. But 'dysfunction' is in the eye of the observer. That I see our entire socioeconomic system as sick and broken for the most base, greedy and self-serving reasons probably puts me in the DysFunc crowd over in the Econ class wing. Funny how I see defenders of the true faith as deluded, dogmatized and dysfunctional in the extreme, isn't it?


If you are unable to distinguish between education and job training, you probably can't adequately define cynicism, either, except as some form of economic apostasy. Thanks for playing.
1). The economic system you espouse and cheerlead for has proved many times to be abjectly worse than what we have currently. Not to mention the piles of dead bodies too deep to reasonably quantify.

2). Everyone understands the differences between education and job training..........your comments above in that context are mostly indivisible, generally silly and largely disconnected from real life.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:37 AM
 
7,967 posts, read 8,800,406 times
Reputation: 6258
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
Then what is the difference between bookkeeping and accounting.

Now we have computers to do the dirty work. Call what is left whatever you want. But people did not buy automobiles when accounting was invented. How much do Americans lose on the Depreciation of that junk every year?

Our economists do not do economics since they do not compute and report depreciation of durable consumer goods. Consumers doing their accounting would have to be aware of that.

How much of GDP is just consumers replacing garbage they bought before?

Deciding what "education" is, is certainly a problem. I asked a PhD economist to explain how an automobile engine worked. He could not do it. Like he could recognize planned obsolescence decades after the Moon landing.
I have a Ph.D in economics and am fully comfortable discussing Otto engines and related.

Your hang up regarding depreciation/obsolescence in the sense that you seem to think you understand something that economists do not is quite frankly sad and wholly misguided.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
76,679 posts, read 68,672,072 times
Reputation: 74056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
You're not talking about accounting, which is the mechanical exercise of money tracking. You're talking about consumer economics, which along with any kind of real critical thinking has been poorly taught if at all for several decades.

Teaching consumer economics is contrary to the practice of American business, therefore we've concentrated on getting people into the highest-paying jobs possible, that they might consume their full share, gladly and without a second thought about the issues.

Thus... "education" has become almost entirely job training, with as little time as possible wasted on that history, civics and literature stuff. Gets in the way of consuming.
You're supposed to get that in high school.Most people I know who got literature crammed down their throats in HS, and the obligatory freshman lit class in college, btw, never learned a thing. To this day, they have no idea what literature is about, or what the point of it is. Literature was not taught in a way that made it understandable, until the last generation, or so.
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
6,427 posts, read 2,259,732 times
Reputation: 10029
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
1). The economic system you espouse and cheerlead for has proved many times to be abjectly worse than what we have currently. Not to mention the piles of dead bodies too deep to reasonably quantify.
Sorry, "Doc," but I bet you'd have a hell of a time defining what economic (or social-econ-political) system I "cheerlead." Other than by throwing a meaningless label or two at it.

Quote:
2). Everyone understands the differences between education and job training...
No, they don't, and the evidence is rampant just in the discussions here, let alone in media and the mainstream world.
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