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Old 04-29-2019, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,470 posts, read 10,404,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
State board members are appointed according to politics, and elected officials hire staffers to advise them on who to appoint.

Local boards consist of a repeated incumbency of insurance salesmen, retired farmers and bored housewives, and their open meetings are in empty halls unless a hot-button issue makes the local media. They are highly dictatorial, lorded over by the superintendent, who has been there forever. Board members concern themselves only with the visible decorum of the schools..
Yes, that's true in regard to how state board members are selected. And when those doing the appointing screw up, they sometimes have to answer to the public in a forthcoming election.

Local school boards are elected by the people. You may not like who they select. But it's democracy at pretty much the most basic level anywhere.

Superintendents who have been there forever? You don't know what you're talking about. The mean tenure for a superintendent is less than 6 years. And school board aren't "lorded over" by superintendents...in fact, it's school boards who fire superintendents.
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:59 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,432 posts, read 1,030,527 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
3. I'm not sure that "Education can be done without the system", although learning can be.
4. Actually, the system will not just have to react to your input. Has it thus far?
Then you need to explain how learning is distinguished from education without being indoctrination.

Isn't this:

The LA School System's $1.3 Billion iPad Fiasco Comes to a Sad End

https://gizmodo.com/the-la-school-sy...-to-1733569377

a reaction showing how screwed up the system is?

What experts were expecting in the 60s was this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_(computer_system)

But now tablet computers for less than $200 are more powerful than the mainframes back then. Which computer language is does not matter. It is the price and power of the machines that limits what can be done and who can get access to them. If anything I wonder if we have already passed the point where more computing power doesn't matter in K-12 educational applications.

Can we make educational AI software that monitors each individual student and finds their interests and talents and presents them with content on that basis? Cheap, powerful computers can give kids what teachers cannot, 100% attention 24/7. What will be the impact if the AI gets 1/3rd as good as a live tutor when live tutors cannot devote that much time? Does "The System" want that? The ED wants to make money off the schools, which want funding from the government.
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,403 posts, read 1,669,820 times
Reputation: 8007
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Yes, that's true in regard to how state board members are selected. And when those doing the appointing screw up, they sometimes have to answer to the public in a forthcoming election.

Local school boards are elected by the people. You may not like who they select. But it's democracy at pretty much the most basic level anywhere.

Superintendents who have been there forever? You don't know what you're talking about. The mean tenure for a superintendent is less than 6 years. And school board aren't "lorded over" by superintendents...in fact, it's school boards who fire superintendents.
As a former elected school board member and journalist who has covered hundreds of other meetings, I do know what I'm talking about.

There is a divide between urban and non-urban boards in terms of their power, but in neither case do they have much concern or expertise about what is actually taught academically. They manage schools the same way they would manage parking lots, and pedagogy is left to the current winds of conventional wisdom.
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Old 04-29-2019, 07:22 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,432 posts, read 1,030,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
First, tell me who died and made you King Of Education that you -- one person -- gets to decide what American education will consist of?
I really hadn't noticed that I had made that claim. You just seem to be an authority on seeing that the "The System" continue in its usual rut. That seems to be a major problem with the system and people that want to work within it. The Authority Trip!

Quote:
There is a divide between urban and non-urban boards in terms of their power, but in neither case do they have much concern or expertise about what is actually taught academically. They manage schools the same way they would manage parking lots, and pedagogy is left to the current winds of conventional wisdom.
Glorification of the system does not seem to be universal among people with personal experience.

I just observe the results and conclude that they are mostly crappy. Just pointing some people at better books seems to have significant effect among people that are willing to read/study them.

Last edited by psikeyhackr; 04-29-2019 at 08:03 PM..
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,470 posts, read 10,404,462 times
Reputation: 20312
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
As a former elected school board member and journalist who has covered hundreds of other meetings, I do know what I'm talking about.

There is a divide between urban and non-urban boards in terms of their power, but in neither case do they have much concern or expertise about what is actually taught academically. They manage schools the same way they would manage parking lots, and pedagogy is left to the current winds of conventional wisdom.
I think there is some truth to that.

So did you just accuse yourself of what you're criticizing?

But I have seen both situations -- very incompetent school boards, and very competent school boards. That's almost irrelevant. Do we want a democratic form of government running our schools...or what is the logical alternative?
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,403 posts, read 1,669,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Do we want a democratic form of government running our schools...or what is the logical alternative?
Democracy is over-rated. The beauty of democracy is that it assures not good leadership, but rather a way to depose the bad. We must still watchfully govern ourselves, seeking wise counsel where we can find it..

There are people who really know a lot about education. None of them have been elected to public office, democratically or otherwise. School boards, at a minimum, should be made up of people who can tell the wise from the foolish.

Last edited by cebuan; 04-29-2019 at 09:42 PM..
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,470 posts, read 10,404,462 times
Reputation: 20312
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Democracy is over-rated. The beauty of democracy is that it assures not good leadership, but rather a way to depose the bad. We must still watchfully govern ourselves, seeking wise counsel where we can find it..

There are people who really know a lot about education. None of them have been elected to public office, democratically or otherwise. School boards, at a minimum, should be made up of people who can tell the wise from the foolish.
Okay, that all sounds good. How do you do it?
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Old 04-30-2019, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,403 posts, read 1,669,820 times
Reputation: 8007
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Okay, that all sounds good. How do you do it?
By recognizing that Democracy is an ocean, that floats ships which must be navigated to their ports.

Democracy gives the freedom to choose and effect good policy, but does not guarantee the outcome.
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:13 PM
 
8,313 posts, read 9,074,437 times
Reputation: 6683
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
I have had one person claiming to be a PhD economist say I was correct and the textbooks are wrong.

Another person claiming to teach economics said he would flunk any student who wrote Economic Wargames.

You toss out a lot of jargon that gives the impression that you know "Official Economic Theory" but you have said nothing about why GDP is used so much more than NDP or why the depreciation of durable consumer goods is ignored. In 1994 there were 200,000,000 cars in the US. At $1,500 of depreciation per car that would be $300,000,000,000 lost in depreciation per year. How many of the cars were capital goods?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1990/


What would that amount to for all of the cars for every year since the Moon landing?

That does not count all of the other durable consumer goods, like refrigerators, air-conditioners, televisions, etc., etc. So we are supposed to be impressed by PhD economists that have ignored all of that loss of wealth by depreciation for decades.


Shouldn't rights to education include complete and correct information?
1). The Ph.D guy who said you were correct and the textbooks were wrong was trying to get you to calm down or be quiet.
2). GDP is a more popular figure because it is more important.
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Old 05-01-2019, 01:59 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,432 posts, read 1,030,527 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
1). The Ph.D guy who said you were correct and the textbooks were wrong was trying to get you to calm down or be quiet.
2). GDP is a more popular figure because it is more important.
I thought it was because the Laws of Physics for durable consumer goods were different from the Laws of Physics for Capital Goods.

Education rights apparently does not include the right to think for yourself about middle school algebra.

Where do economists post the data on the depreciation of all of the automobiles? It must not be important since they leave it out.
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