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Old 05-17-2019, 02:08 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,435 posts, read 1,031,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
He certainly wasnít self taught, you know he had a classical education correct?
Yeah, Aristotle was So Scientific! He probably got something from Archimedes.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:13 PM
 
16,600 posts, read 14,088,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
That case was not about what anybody would consider to be hate speech.



So you are agreeing that there are limits to free speech, regardless of whether or not you are an adult.



But there is a big difference between detention in school vs jail time. Children do not get criminal records for cursing in school, nor for anything else that would be legal for an adult. Possible exceptions would be things like underage drinking, but, in that case, the law specifically specifies an age.



I don't really care.



Again, I seriously doubt that students are going to jail for cursing in school.
What are you talking about? Who said anything about jail? Even in Tinker the kids were just suspended. You are working really, really hard at trying to move the goal posts.

What you originally said was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
When I was in school, they made it very clear that constitutional rights do not apply to us. Not even the First Amendment. Not sure if that was legally true, or if it was just a way to keep us in line.

Then you proceeded to try and use Tinker as an explanation that students in school have the same right to freedom of speech that else has. I showed multiple examples of case law where that has been shown to be false. No, students do not have the same right to freedom of speech at school.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:18 PM
 
16,600 posts, read 14,088,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
Yeah, Aristotle was So Scientific! He probably got something from Archimedes.
You literally deleted 90% of my post, because it showed exactly how Galileo engaged with other scientists to develop as a scientist. You did this because you cannot acknowledge anything that conflicts with your idea that anything and everything can be learned solely from a book. Honestly, it says more about your issues than anything else.

Want to know something you could have learned from a book? Aristotle was dead before Archimedes was even born. It is unlikely he "got something from Archimedes" due to that pesky issue of time. Aside from your time issues, do you not see the difference between philosophy and science?
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:09 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,435 posts, read 1,031,955 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
You literally deleted 90% of my post, because it showed exactly how Galileo engaged with other scientists to develop as a scientist.
Then you should not have any trouble NAMING these scientists. I don't care about the scholars. The literary and humanities side of scholarship is overrated.

C. P. Snow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures

Education does present interesting problems though.

https://www.1843magazine.com/feature...urse-of-genius

Last edited by psikeyhackr; 05-17-2019 at 04:31 PM..
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:34 PM
 
16,600 posts, read 14,088,141 times
Reputation: 20563
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
Then you should not have any trouble NAMING these scientists. I don't care about the scholars. The literary and humanities side of scholarship is overrated.

C. P. Snow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures

Education does present interesting problems though.

https://www.1843magazine.com/feature...urse-of-genius
You donít think Kepler was a scientist? You have got to be kidding.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:28 PM
 
6,859 posts, read 3,725,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
Then you should not have any trouble NAMING these scientists. I don't care about the scholars. The literary and humanities side of scholarship is overrated.

C. P. Snow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures
Ö.[/url]
I do agree with Snow. We often see that play out here in CD between those who think scientists and engineers have never read a book in their life and those who think English majors have careers as Baristas (when we all know it takes a chemist to make coffee).
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:48 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,435 posts, read 1,031,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
You donít think Kepler was a scientist? You have got to be kidding.
This is what you said:

Quote:
But the skill of how to "do" science cannot be self taught as it requires peers, mentors, etc. to challenge you and force you to "defend" your thesis. You could read every book written and still not be able to do that. That is the difference between learning science and a science education.

Are you claiming that Kepler helped train Galileo to do science?

Kepler 1571-1630
Galileo 1564-1642

Specify the "scientists" that helped teach Galileo to do science.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:27 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,435 posts, read 1,031,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
You donít think Kepler was a scientist? You have got to be kidding.
Quote:
In 1610 Kepler heard and read about Galileo's discoveries with the spyglass. He quickly composed a long letter of support which he published as Dissertatio *** Nuncio Sidereo ("Conversation with the Sidereal Messenger"), and when, later that year, he obtained the use of a suitable telescope, he published his observations of Jupiter's satellites under the title Narratio de Observatis Quatuor Jovis Satellitibus ("Narration about Four Satellites of Jupiter observed"). These tracts were an enormous support to Galileo, whose discoveries were doubted or denied by many. Both of Kepler's tracts were quickly reprinted in Florence. Kepler went on to provide the beginning of a theory of the telescope in his Dioptrice, published in 1611.
The Galileo Project | Science | Johannes Kepler

Galileo described his inclined plane acceleration experiments in 1638. 8 years after Kepler's death. I have not found a specification of when he actually did them.

Inclined Plane Experiment

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startsw.../#47b9b107b055

https://owlcation.com/stem/What-Were...ons-to-Physics

Found references to Galileo contradicting Aristotle but not who Galileo's teachers were.

Galileoís Early Life, Education and Experiments

https://www.history.com/topics/inven...alileo-galilei
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Old 05-18-2019, 12:00 PM
 
5,191 posts, read 4,893,797 times
Reputation: 3314
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
What are you talking about? Who said anything about jail? Even in Tinker the kids were just suspended. You are working really, really hard at trying to move the goal posts.

You are working really, really hard just to argue with everything that I ever post. My understanding is that schools can give detention for basically anything they want, but it has nothing to do with legal rights. Suspension is another issue, but still not the same as jail. Nothing to do with child vs adult.

Quote:
Then you proceeded to try and use Tinker as an explanation that students in school have the same right to freedom of speech that else has. I showed multiple examples of case law where that has been shown to be false. No, students do not have the same right to freedom of speech at school.
I was giving a specific example where one of my teachers said that students have zero rights because he didn't agree with the Supreme Court's decision in Tinker vs Des Moines.

I see no point in arguing any further. Can we please just leave each other alone?
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:18 AM
 
15 posts, read 2,448 times
Reputation: 35
Each has constructed law around education as a fundamental right of citizens.
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