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Old 06-01-2019, 10:50 PM
 
8,309 posts, read 9,063,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Be careful with this type of reasoning:

There are millions of folks with degrees working at places like Starbucks! Why? They got a useless degree and most have college debt too!

Not all college degrees = huge financial success.

By the same argument here are a few success stories with no college degree:

Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg both dropped out of Harvard. Both were billionaires shortly thereafter

Michael Jordan dropped out of UNC Chapel Hill

Tiger Woods dropped out of Stanford.


All great schools, all dropouts and easily the most successful in their fields. Some people don't want to be limited in their potential and a brick and mortar institution can be confining.
And still on balance those with degrees significantly outearn those without.

Starbucks has less than 300,000 employees total.
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:55 AM
 
29 posts, read 9,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanArt View Post
........What OP did was actually what all parents should do if they have no idea about education.

Bare in mind if his daughter could get fired for multiple reasons at anytime. So currently she is safe at what she does but that does not certify her actually will be able to stay in that position at all.
For now, She has been working for three years, was promoted twice, turned down several offers from other companies. So I am quite sure she has a secure career. I have been working all my life without a degree.

You see, I am not talking theoretically. I know how it works from extensive experience.

I can make anyone who can handle the load to a software engineer in 1 - 2 years, meaning they get the first job. If it is a kid, they can have a job right after graduation from high school or even before. Maybe for younger kids, it will be three years instead of 1-2.

It is not easy. Not everyone can do it. But if it is too much to handle, it becomes evident in one month.
After a couple of months, a student is already can write simple programs and progresses every week.

All one needs to know before they start is only basic arithmetics and be able to read.

So if someone wants to try, ask me.
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Old 06-03-2019, 08:21 AM
 
20,077 posts, read 11,137,874 times
Reputation: 20120
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
And still on balance those with degrees significantly outearn those without.

Starbucks has less than 300,000 employees total.
Most kids don't get degrees. And a huge proportion of those who do get degrees get degrees that won't pay the rent, and will never pay off the college debt.

Many of those who get degrees (which includes advanced degrees) do make a huge amount of money--which skews the "average."

What we really need to see are the modals for each type of degree. For instance, what is the modal income for any degree that ends with "Studies?"

Kids who don't leave high school fully prepared for a tough degree--and know which one they want--generally do not need to start going into college debt at 18. Those kids need to go into something that's going to pay them, feed them, and house them until they get their heads together.
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Old 06-03-2019, 08:24 AM
 
20,077 posts, read 11,137,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus_long View Post
For now, She has been working for three years, was promoted twice, turned down several offers from other companies. So I am quite sure she has a secure career. I have been working all my life without a degree.

You see, I am not talking theoretically. I know how it works from extensive experience.

I can make anyone who can handle the load to a software engineer in 1 - 2 years, meaning they get the first job. If it is a kid, they can have a job right after graduation from high school or even before. Maybe for younger kids, it will be three years instead of 1-2.

It is not easy. Not everyone can do it. But if it is too much to handle, it becomes evident in one month.
After a couple of months, a student is already can write simple programs and progresses every week.

All one needs to know before they start is only basic arithmetics and be able to read.

So if someone wants to try, ask me.
If she ever wants to become a manager and get on an executive track, she'll probably need a degree.

But she may never want to go that way...and that's okay.

She'd probably be better off in the long run looking at entrepreneurship in her field.

Either way, that would not be an IT degree. If she wants to look at running her own business, being a contractor, she'd want to look at small business education at a community college, or a SCORE mentorship.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:35 AM
 
29 posts, read 9,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
If she ever wants to become a manager and get on an executive track, she'll probably need a degree.
I have a simple approach If you need something you get it when you need it. This way you can avoid spending time and money to get a lot of unnecessary things. Nothing prevents her to get a degree if and when she needs it. So far it looks like she not going to need it.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:06 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,524 posts, read 39,903,732 times
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The right employer will support schedule and cost for the right employee to get advanced EDU. (when desired / necessary).

Even Walmart is doing this.


I found that schooling later (After you have had direct experience in your field) is for more valuable and participatory, with more reasonable and applicable outcome. As a PT prof, I really prefer students that can add valuable content and questions to the subject and enhance other students learning perspective during discussions / scenarios.

As one who got my edu 'later', I was certainly limited in the speed of my career growth in a very 'degree centric' employer, but I developed a lot of growth / depth and contribution taking that path. (Money / power has never been a motivator to me, so that was fine). YMMV, everyone is different.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:21 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,219 posts, read 19,521,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus_long View Post
A lot of programmers have no CS degree.

Most of the programmers have some college degree.

Most job descriptions contains: BS in Computer Science required.

In reality, most employers do not care about degrees. They care can you do the job. Right now I am working for a government institute and the job description contained "master degree required". I do not have even BS.

Top IT companies publicly announced they do not require college degree anymore.
Can you provide some objective stats and information on this?

Why would anybody get a BS or MS in computer science if no degree is required to work in the field?
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:38 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,980 posts, read 102,527,356 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Be careful with this type of reasoning:

There are millions of folks with degrees working at places like Starbucks! Why? They got a useless degree and most have college debt too!

Not all college degrees = huge financial success.

By the same argument here are a few success stories with no college degree:

Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg both dropped out of Harvard. Both were billionaires shortly thereafter

Michael Jordan dropped out of UNC Chapel Hill

Tiger Woods dropped out of Stanford.


All great schools, all dropouts and easily the most successful in their fields. Some people don't want to be limited in their potential and a brick and mortar institution can be confining.
1. The only person I know who has a degree and works at Starbuck's is the music director of my church. She gets paid for the music job too. She is a very recent (like 2 years) college graduate and is trying to get her music career going. Meanwhile, she has to eat.

2. Gimme a break about Gates, Zuckerberg, Jordan and Woods. They are hardly representative. John Elway graduated from Stanford. Peyton Manning graduated from the U of Tennessee. Most CEOs graduated from college. Gates tells students to stay in and get the degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Most kids don't get degrees. And a huge proportion of those who do get degrees get degrees that won't pay the rent, and will never pay off the college debt.

Many of those who get degrees (which includes advanced degrees) do make a huge amount of money--which skews the "average."

What we really need to see are the modals for each type of degree. For instance, what is the modal income for any degree that ends with "Studies?"

Kids who don't leave high school fully prepared for a tough degree--and know which one they want--generally do not need to start going into college debt at 18. Those kids need to go into something that's going to pay them, feed them, and house them until they get their heads together.
The "average" may be skewed, but the median isn't. The median (half make more, half make less) is higher at every increasing educational level. I'm always glad I bookmarked this in these discussion.
https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unempl...-education.htm
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:24 AM
 
29 posts, read 9,416 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Can you provide some objective stats and information on this?

Why would anybody get a BS or MS in computer science if no degree is required to work in the field?
It's a great question!

I did not do statistical research. I just describing what see working as a software engineer my whole life.

But I think this news should provide enough evidence:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/16/15-c...ge-degree.html

They were not requiring de-facto before that. This news just made it official.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:44 AM
 
29 posts, read 9,416 times
Reputation: 70
And you can see a nice example of the problem we are discussing here in another thread in the same forum:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/educa...dent-debt.html
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