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View Poll Results: Should we pass tort reform legislation in order to discourage zero tolerance policies?
Yes 7 41.18%
No 10 58.82%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-22-2019, 01:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
No disagreement. Kind of a side issue, though, like blaming a trooper for your speeding ticket.


I am reminded of the eras when a pharaoh spent endless effort chiseling predecessors' names off every monument.
Kind of like what many governments do at every park and other public facility every time one scalawag is replaced by another?
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:12 AM
 
6,964 posts, read 3,865,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Yeah. I was still teaching when some of the Obama suggested guidances went into effect. Assault on a staff member was downgraded from expulsion to 5 day suspension. That did not go over well. Neither did removing chronic class disruption from the violation of discipline code category.

Much of this was done because studies, as well as anecdotal observation, indicated that specific demographic cohorts violated certain discipline policies more often than others and were therefore punished more often.

A strange wrinkle in my former system under the new guidelines was that possession of tobacco merited an expulsion for a second offense while distribution of controlled substances was a 5 day suspension for a second offense.
When did local school districts begin to be controlled by such federal "guidances?" I'd be interested in seeing that claim supported.
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:16 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
33,884 posts, read 42,114,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutty View Post
When did local school districts begin to be controlled by such federal "guidances?" I'd be interested in seeing that claim supported.
For those who don't read links the first time they're posted:

https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...dance-package-
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,596 posts, read 3,032,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutty View Post
Kind of like what many governments do at every park and other public facility every time one scalawag is replaced by another?
Oh, some cities do I suppose. But I notice a lot of plaques on buildings proudly announcing Nixon or Reagan was President at the time, and listing long-forgotten mayors and councilmen.

The current administration's ceaseless efforts to erase That Name from everything in sight is almost humorous sometimes.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:01 AM
 
7,088 posts, read 4,093,759 times
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Should who's law?

You're using blanket and broad terms here. What kind of "tort reform"? In most states, it already is hard to sue school districts. But even if it weren't zero policy laws aren't frequently lawsuit targets, especially in the tort system.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:17 PM
 
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No.

We need to reduce administration in education.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
We need to reduce administration in education.
It's not there because it's a cushy gig or a trendy thing to do.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:54 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
33,884 posts, read 42,114,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
No.

We need to reduce administration in education.
Then change some laws.

The transition to all this standardized testing, which I will remind people was demanded by voters to install accountability, has , by itself, created a huge bureaucracy in every school system in the US.

The tests demand at least one full time staff member in every school just to manage the testing program. That's on top of what was already in place for AP, SAT and other tests.

My one Principal tried to without a testing coordinator one year so he could hire a frat brother for something (football assistant if I remember) and it was a disaster.
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:15 PM
 
6,842 posts, read 3,716,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Then change some laws.

The transition to all this standardized testing, which I will remind people was demanded by voters to install accountability, has , by itself, created a huge bureaucracy in every school system in the US.
....
This is where I have a slight disagreement. While accountability was demanded by the voters, the specifics of standardized testing, as well as most of the other changes going back decades where created by those in education (I won't say teachers specifically, but the public doesn't differentiate between teachers, administrators, and education theorists; to the public they are all teachers) as the "how" the voters wanted.

The voters don't dream up these things and put them on the ballot. They simply ask for accountability or discipline or whatever. The education establishment responds with zero tolerance or standardized testing or flavor of the month. And the voters say ok. Until they find out the solution isn't what they wanted and the establishment proposes a new solution.

Honestly I don't think what the voters want today is any different than what they wanted 50 years ago -- reward and encourage high quality teachers; get rid of the bad ones; high expectations for students; focus on teaching those there to learn and kick those there to disrupt out of the classroom; discipline and respect in the classroom and politics out; and simply get back to basics with no more flavor of the month look-say reading, new math, new new math, common core math, etc pushed by educrats.

With these few simple things, 95% of the public would back higher pay for teachers, better working conditions, an pretty much want most teachers say they want.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,596 posts, read 3,032,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
With these few simple things, 95% of the public would back higher pay for teachers, better working conditions, an pretty much want most teachers say they want.
As long as it didn't raise their property taxes a single mill, sure.

And so you have a better solution to a voter demand for accountability?
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