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Old 08-23-2021, 02:17 AM
 
2 posts, read 3,654 times
Reputation: 10

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My son will be in 4th grade in the new semester.

He did well in the third and fourth grade integration last year and passed the SCAT test with high honors
in both language and math.
(He passed more than 90% 5th grade studies.)

However, this year, they are assigned to the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th combined classes, and out of 13 students, only two including him are in 4th grade.

My son has the same teacher as last year, but last year's classmates are all older than him,
so they're a 5,6th grade mix class.

In the case of a combined class, I know that the upper grades are below average in terms of learning, and the lower grades make up the class with a higher than average level.

For example, 3rd graders in integrated classes are mostly high level students, I think that means they will be challenged for 4th grade assignments/activities.

So, I think that 4th grade students with above average level are difficult to develop academically.

I am worried that he will be able to develop academically in a classroom with a large number of third graders.

He's already under pressure from his younger classmates and he's stressed because he can't see his friends.

His school is a small private school. If he keeps this classroom,
I think he'll get with lower grade mixed class next year too.

I don't know why schools combine high-achieving students with lower-grade.

In this case, I want to know how it will affect the learning of older grade.

Would you give me some advice on this?

Last edited by Yura Han; 08-23-2021 at 02:32 AM..
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Old 08-23-2021, 04:41 AM
 
602 posts, read 569,427 times
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Pull him out of school and home school him.

I'm not sure which administrator made this decision but you're right in your suspicions.

The intellectual capabilities of 2nd and 4th graders are sufficiently far apart that someone is getting shortchanged in that situation.
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Old 08-23-2021, 07:24 AM
 
2,098 posts, read 2,487,849 times
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So is the issue that your son was selected as one of two 4th graders to be in the 2-3-4 class and other 4th graders are going into a different class, the 5-6 class you mentioned?

Or is the issue that this small private school is so small that there are only two 4th graders in the entire school and because they need a full class, they are combining 2-3-4 and you are not happy that your son will likely be unchallenged in this scenario?

If the school is so small that it can only support classes combined with multiple grade levels, I would suggest this likely isn't the best place for your son. If he switched to the public schools in your area, would he be in a full sized classroom with other 4th graders?
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Old 08-23-2021, 12:06 PM
 
2 posts, read 3,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitkatbar View Post
So is the issue that your son was selected as one of two 4th graders to be in the 2-3-4 class and other 4th graders are going into a different class, the 5-6 class you mentioned?

Or is the issue that this small private school is so small that there are only two 4th graders in the entire school and because they need a full class, they are combining 2-3-4 and you are not happy that your son will likely be unchallenged in this scenario?

If the school is so small that it can only support classes combined with multiple grade levels, I would suggest this likely isn't the best place for your son. If he switched to the public schools in your area, would he be in a full sized classroom with other 4th graders?

His school is small and there are only two 4th graders this year.

(I think the other 2nd,3rd mixed classes and 5th,6th mixed classes are full size)

Unfortunately, our public school districts are among the worst in the whole of USA(5/10)

We can't move to an average public school unless we're moving houses.

So, If the case of my son's school is not normal, I'm going to ask the school for a meeting.
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Old 08-23-2021, 01:23 PM
 
2,098 posts, read 2,487,849 times
Reputation: 9744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yura Han View Post
His school is small and there are only two 4th graders this year.

So, If the case of my son's school is not normal, I'm going to ask the school for a meeting.
So the problem is that your school is so small that you only have TWO students in your son's entire grade (your child plus one other.) The second problem is because it's a private school, and you're choosing to go there, they may not be subject to as many regulations as public school. Even if you were in public school, if you were somewhere very rural like parts of Alaska, you might very well have grades with only a few students in them. They're certainly not going to employ 1 teacher per grade for only 3-4 students. They're going to combine grade levels into combo classes just like your school is doing and have the teacher do their best with what they've got.

In my state, the allowable student to teacher ratio for 4th grade is 22:1. So if there are only enough 2nd and 3rd graders that when you add them to 4th graders, you get 22 students or fewer, that's probably why you're seeing this sort of combo classroom. I have no idea about the 5th and 6th grade enrollment numbers (perhaps they have more kids in those grades?) but I would guess if their enrollment is higher, that is why they chose to combine 4th with 2/3 instead of 5/6.

So I don't think you're going to have any luck trying to get a free-standing class for just your kid and the other kid. I also suspect if the enrollment is higher in the 5/6 class, you're not going to have any luck getting him transferred over there either, though that's probably the more likely of the two options. You can always ask.

I would say that if overall you like this private school and like the setup of how classes are taught (understanding that if he only has one other child in his grade, he is likely to always be in these combo-class situations with students in different grade levels), then keep him there and maybe next year he will be in a combo class you like better? He's probably also going to have to develop pretty good independent study skills.

Is there a different private school you would prefer more? Or, can you keep him in that same class and supplement his learning at home (make sure he's doing lots of reading on his own, ask for work packets from 5th grade level he can do on his own if the work in 4th is too easy.) But honestly, if he's on grade level and you don't have any other options for other schools to send him to, it's probably best to just make sure he's reading lots of books from the library, and ask the teacher to give him more challenging material should he start to feel bored.
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Old 08-24-2021, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,358 posts, read 23,944,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yura Han View Post
His school is small and there are only two 4th graders this year.

(I think the other 2nd,3rd mixed classes and 5th,6th mixed classes are full size)

Unfortunately, our public school districts are among the worst in the whole of USA(5/10)

We can't move to an average public school unless we're moving houses.

So, If the case of my son's school is not normal, I'm going to ask the school for a meeting.
Something seems not right here. Aren't you in the city of Honolulu?
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Old 08-24-2021, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
2,369 posts, read 901,461 times
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Was your son born later in the year? I was one of those kids that was a few months older than the other kids, until I got fed up at age 12 and took the initiative myself to ask the (private) school to let me skip a grade. My parents didn't get involved.

Your son is younger so you may need to help him talk to the administrators.
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Old 08-26-2021, 11:11 AM
 
3,144 posts, read 2,663,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yura Han View Post
My son will be in 4th grade in the new semester.
I am worried that he will be able to develop academically in a classroom with a large number of third graders.
I would jettison this school post-haste. We fought tooth-and-nail to get into our local magnet school because it was the highest-testing school in the county. However, if they put our students in a combined class with lower-grade students, we would pull them out without a second thought.

Our school combined classes because a 1-2 punch from COVID and ultra high COL in our area means there aren't enough kids. Furthermore, many teachers quit, so they probably don't have the resources to meet state requirements without leaning on the kids and families. Our 2nd graders are in a combined 2nd-3rd grade class, and I am already extremely displeased. The only reason we stay with the school is because they are in a class that will be closer to their level. They are at a 4th/5th grade level in most core subjects. We may still pull them out, depending on how this semester goes.

Combined classes are inferior in all cases. You have a single teacher trying to deliver twice the curriculum with no extra resources. It simply doesn't work. Our school system knew this, they also knew that they would be combining a large number of classes, so they waited until literally the night before school started to inform parents which students would be in combined classes.

This was incredibly disrespectful and stupid. While they may have prevented an immediate hemorrhaging of students prior to the start of the school year, parents are going to remember being treated like adversaries and leave the school system. But I digress.

Quote:
He's already under pressure from his younger classmates and he's stressed because he can't see his friends.

His school is a small private school. If he keeps this classroom,
I think he'll get with lower grade mixed class next year too.
I don't know why you are paying for this sort of inferior education, unless there are absolutely no better options. I would take a single public school class--even in a low-performing school--over a combined-down class in any private school, especially one that combines 3 grades! That's simply insane!

I would immediately explore the following:
- Other private schools in the area.
- Local charter schools.
- Local public schools, especially magnet schools.
- Homeschool/tutoring. If you do not have the time to completely homeschool, you may be able to find homeschool groups that combine resources so that the children are rotated between parents and tutors allowing working parents to participate.

Quote:
I don't know why schools combine high-achieving students with lower-grade.
Because they are teaching to the lowest-common-denominator, and this is the easiest way to provide minimum services. Your child is not a "problem" so they get shuffled off into the combined class to languish on their own with hours and hours of "self-study" while the teacher focuses on the dumb and disruptive kids. They hope you won't complain and that your kid won't make waves.

This sort of "No child left behind" philosophy really translates into "no one gets ahead." or "Everyone is held back." It is essentially trying to apply an assembly-line management from The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt to education. The problem is that the "product" educators are defining, is the AVERAGE student education. They have a mistaken belief that the easiest way to raise the average is to focus on the low-performers and let the high-performers languish.

Also, they know that high-performing students have parents who will supplement the sub-standard education they give children like yours. There is no reason you have to go along with this. If you are already forced to supplement, why are you paying them to do a bad job?

Quote:
In this case, I want to know how it will affect the learning of older grade.

Would you give me some advice on this?
You already know the answer. It has a severe negative impact on your child's education. My advice is to leave. If homeschooling is not an option, there are no good public schools, and you still need a babysitter for your kid during working hours, get the "free babysitter" from your local crummy public education, and use the money you saved from this crap private school to pay for cram school and tutors to supplement after normal work/school hours.
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Old 09-04-2021, 06:54 PM
 
1,019 posts, read 1,038,153 times
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One of my children was in the K part of a K/1 split. It was done for all the wrong reasons (budget) but it was well-implemented. The children who were chosen for the K portion were all advanced academically. The children in the 1st grade were chosen for being slightly above grade level (because they didn't want K kids being more advanced than 1st graders), and having no behavioral issues. This was because the principal knew teaching a split classroom would have its challenges and so wanted to make it as easy as possible for the teacher, who had never taught split before (although she had taught both K & 1st, separately, in the past).

The teacher later confided, at the end of the year, that she was very apprehensive about the class, but it had turned out to be one of her favorites in over 20 years of teaching.

OP, I'd consider that your child has only 13 kids in the classroom. That is very unusual. My 5th grader has 28. I'd much rather have him in a class with 3rd and 4th graders if the class were half the size.
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