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Old 06-02-2022, 09:47 AM
 
15,459 posts, read 14,163,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
Yes, but in the article, it states:



How do you have an architect who can't do basic math? It's crazy!

My daughter was an English major in undergraduate. She also has a masters in education. She terrible at math, but her college (like most colleges) have 'fake' math classes for liberal arts majors who will never use it. Some college will allow a substitute of logic courses for math.

This guy from the article needed to pass a real math course for architecture. At least for the present, you can't fake architecture - just, wait for the future!
The guy who couldn't pass algebra after 4 tries had ZERO chance at any legit architecture degree. I just looked up UT-Austin's architecture math requirements...................calculus I and II, Diff E, two algebra based physics classes - mechanics, heat and sound and then light, magnetism, atomic...........each with a lab.
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Old 06-02-2022, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Arizona
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I can see the concept of algebra, calculus, etc. being a part of the "well rounded college graduate". But if you don't use these disciplines regularly (engineer, scientist, chemist, and so forth) then you've pretty much forgotten everything you learned in a few months. Of course, if you're a math geek then that's a whole different story.
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Old 06-02-2022, 10:22 AM
 
35,591 posts, read 55,154,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater View Post
This doesn't seem to get a lot of attention despite the percentages involved. Looks like the worst of both worlds - debt but no degree. Math can be challenging for many people but the assumption is that everyone will pass all their math classes, it seems.

"Nearly 40% of full-time undergraduates who enrolled in the 2011-12 academic year accumulated some debt but did not have a degree after six years, said Mark Huelsman, the director of policy and advocacy at the Hope Center for College, Community and Justice at Temple University.

About 37% of borrowers enrolling in four-year institutions in 2013 didn’t graduate within six years, either, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. The rate was even higher — 75% didn’t earn a credential — at private, for-profit institutions."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/got-debt-...174651659.html
One thing I know from personal experience of our two college-grad children and many of their friends and college-attending children of other friends is that colleges will design their course offerings to limit certain upper level classes and required lower ones to try to force students to enroll for an extra semester or two—
Parents have to plan for some summer school classes (maybe at less $$ community colleges) or now online classes to free space in students’ schedules and they have to be ready to enroll in classes the instant they go online (that is how our kids had to register—over the phone—because they went to college 20+ yrs ago…

Colleges know how many students are in certain grad paths—like marketing or biology and will deliberately limit the number of labs or courses required in those paths so that certain % can’t get in
They HAVE to have those classes—so it’s either enroll another semester and pay all associated costs for one or two classes vs a full course load—or try to find an online course that can substitute—
Often there is none (no surprise)

Colleges are very good at throwing roadblocks in students’ paths—and especially when students are trying to go to school and work to help pay living expenses it can be a horrible journey
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Old 06-02-2022, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
5,347 posts, read 1,951,278 times
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Originally Posted by Robert20170 View Post
Student debt is our Nation's next crisis. If the current administration thinks they can print their way out of it, they are sadly mistaken.
How can student debt be a national crisis - only about about 10% of adults have student loans - most with more than about $50K are those with MD, DDS, JD, MBA type degrees that should be able to pay it back.
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Old 06-02-2022, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
5,347 posts, read 1,951,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater View Post
I can see the concept of algebra, calculus, etc. being a part of the "well rounded college graduate". But if you don't use these disciplines regularly (engineer, scientist, chemist, and so forth) then you've pretty much forgotten everything you learned in a few months. Of course, if you're a math geek then that's a whole different story.
Not true at all - even if don't use math everyday, math helps in things like critical thinking, understanding concepts and logic. There are many other degrees that require more than basic math - key to understanding statistics and economics for lots of degrees - maybe not french poetry but certainly for business, finance, accounting, psychology, political science, history, biology, astronomy, graphic design, logistics, computer science, sociology, education, environmental systems, meteorologist and many other degrees.
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Old 06-02-2022, 01:21 PM
 
Location: USA
6,467 posts, read 3,240,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater View Post
I can see the concept of algebra, calculus, etc. being a part of the "well rounded college graduate". But if you don't use these disciplines regularly (engineer, scientist, chemist, and so forth) then you've pretty much forgotten everything you learned in a few months. Of course, if you're a math geek then that's a whole different story.


Mathematics requires logical thinking. And that is what college should be teaching.

The goal is not to be able to solve quadratic equations, but rather being able to think through a problem, separate known from unknown, formulate a plan, and execute the solution.

Don't you think a college graduate should be able to perform these basic thinking actions?

I was graduated with a STEM degree, but I was required to take English literature courses; several years of a foreign language; courses in music and art appreciation; and other non-STEM courses. It has given me a greater appreciation of the world in which we live and for arts in general.

College should not be a trade school.
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Old 06-02-2022, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,302 posts, read 1,868,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo View Post
Not true at all - even if don't use math everyday, math helps in things like critical thinking, understanding concepts and logic. There are many other degrees that require more than basic math - key to understanding statistics and economics for lots of degrees - maybe not french poetry but certainly for business, finance, accounting, psychology, political science, history, biology, astronomy, graphic design, logistics, computer science, sociology, education, environmental systems, meteorologist and many other degrees.
If you graduated college six years ago and your career is with Child Protective Services, algebra is long in the rear view mirror. Not saying it didn't help in some way, but it just isn't a factor in your everyday career,
.
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Old 06-02-2022, 01:40 PM
 
9,100 posts, read 5,038,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillie767 View Post
Mathematics requires logical thinking. And that is what college should be teaching.

The goal is not to be able to solve quadratic equations, but rather being able to think through a problem, separate known from unknown, formulate a plan, and execute the solution.

Don't you think a college graduate should be able to perform these basic thinking actions?

I was graduated with a STEM degree, but I was required to take English literature courses; several years of a foreign language; courses in music and art appreciation; and other non-STEM courses. It has given me a greater appreciation of the world in which we live and for arts in general.

College should not be a trade school.
I was not actually required to take a math class in school. I could take logic or a programming class instead as they addressed the same issues. I took one of each as well as statistics. That said, I think I was allowed to make that decision because I scored high enough on the SAT math. I am not sure what the requirement was to do that. I think at that time it might have been a score above the 90th percentile in math. I was the last year before the recentering, so my score is different than what people would score today.

FWIW, I met some people who had trouble getting a degree due to the foreign language requirement. I think a friend of mine was dating someone who transferred schools a few times just so he could get a degree without having to pass a foreign language.

In terms of math, I worked in a non-math oriented job previously and people at at my employe were working with budgeting on a daily basis. They had to know how to do basic algebra and math to be able to do the job. I had a colleague who took sick pleasure in making me give like an hour monologue on an algorithm over and over again. Apparently my counterparts never had to make the monologue.
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Old 06-02-2022, 02:18 PM
 
35,591 posts, read 55,154,246 times
Reputation: 22638
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo View Post
How can student debt be a national crisis - only about about 10% of adults have student loans - most with more than about $50K are those with MD, DDS, JD, MBA type degrees that should be able to pay it back.
There are some people who live by going to college and getting loans and have no intention of graduating
As long as they can get a loan
My son had friend like that—
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Old 06-02-2022, 02:22 PM
 
35,591 posts, read 55,154,246 times
Reputation: 22638
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
I was not actually required to take a math class in school. I could take logic or a programming class instead as they addressed the same issues. I took one of each as well as statistics. That said, I think I was allowed to make that decision because I scored high enough on the SAT math. I am not sure what the requirement was to do that. I think at that time it might have been a score above the 90th percentile in math. I was the last year before the recentering, so my score is different than what people would score today.

FWIW, I met some people who had trouble getting a degree due to the foreign language requirement. I think a friend of mine was dating someone who transferred schools a few times just so he could get a degree without having to pass a foreign language.

In terms of math, I worked in a non-math oriented job previously and people at at my employe were working with budgeting on a daily basis. They had to know how to do basic algebra and math to be able to do the job. I had a colleague who took sick pleasure in making me give like an hour monologue on an algorithm over and over again. Apparently my counterparts never had to make the monologue.
I am old enough and lucky enough to go to a college that required no math for a BA—
I hate math—
I have friend whose granddaughter must have a learning disability in math
She graduated high school but her math score on exit level test was too low to take a college credit math class without passing a no-credit math class to gain basics she needed
She tried 3 times and could not pass—
My friend tried to tell the girl and her parents she should be tested for a learning disability but they didn’t want to do that so she just stopped going to college
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