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Old 06-02-2022, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
15,010 posts, read 13,940,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
And retire in last place.
Hardly. If you're working smarter than means you're working more efficiently and completing more work while spending less energy and time to complete the same amount of work. Funny thing happened today. My spouse's Fortune 100 company today announced that the company is going to work smarter not harder. Pretty sure they know what they're doing since they've been in business for 120 years and have about 100,000 employees around the world.
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Old 06-03-2022, 06:25 AM
 
14,882 posts, read 17,956,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater View Post
This doesn't seem to get a lot of attention despite the percentages involved. Looks like the worst of both worlds - debt but no degree. Math can be challenging for many people but the assumption is that everyone will pass all their math classes, it seems.

"Nearly 40% of full-time undergraduates who enrolled in the 2011-12 academic year accumulated some debt but did not have a degree after six years, said Mark Huelsman, the director of policy and advocacy at the Hope Center for College, Community and Justice at Temple University.

About 37% of borrowers enrolling in four-year institutions in 2013 didn’t graduate within six years, either, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. The rate was even higher — 75% didn’t earn a credential — at private, for-profit institutions."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/got-debt-...174651659.html
One underlying issue is the "trade schools" love to get poor kids 100% financing/loans for their education despite them being a poor fit for the program to actually graduate. From fake nursing degrees (not actual RN programs), to radio broadcasting, technical trade schools the students get roped in to a dream that won't actually come to fruition but the debt is theirs. School doesn't care, they got paid with your loan money!

Years ago (1980's) a friend went to an art school for sign design. He wasn't real bright, they promised scholarships but then said you need loans. He kept going, signing for the loans and never graduated but actually learned enough to get into the career field. Didn't pay the loans, defaulted then they started garnishing his wages so he would quit that job and start at another until they found him again. He is now in his 60's and they will start garnishing his social security checks.
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Old 06-03-2022, 06:28 AM
 
14,882 posts, read 17,956,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
I'm sure this happens quite often. Last week I read about someone who just became a doctor and is $400K in debt. I can't even imagine how long it will take him to pay it back. Unless he becomes a plastic surgeon to the stars I don't see how he can.
Its the lifestyle that hurts the "Dr's" the most. They want the big car, the big house because that shows their success as a Dr!

Reality is they are on a debt hamster wheel..........for life!
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Old 06-03-2022, 06:39 AM
 
1,098 posts, read 853,623 times
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Yet, if student loans were given only to qualified students (with demonstrated competency in mathematics) people would cry prejudice. So they’re continuing to be given to anyone with a pulse.
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Old 06-03-2022, 06:45 AM
 
1,098 posts, read 853,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
i think the pressure to succeed, the pressure to perform, the pressure to make a lot of money, the pressure to pay off a huge debt that could take years and years to pay off, could very well make someone so depressed they couldn't perform well at work regardless of the field. i've known lots of people who switch careers once they find out it's not for them. it's just the stakes are a lot higher when a person has invested 10 to 14 years of advanced education and a ton of money.

i've also known shady characters who go the bankruptcy route to weasel out of student debt. but this doctor I knew was not in that category.
If debt caused depression, everyone with a mortgage would be depressed. That’s a 15 or 30 year deal.

A doctor with even $1m in student debt, earning $250k, could pay it off in less than 10 years. The focus the person you described in terms of career choice and even location for high demand hints at an earnings potential of even higher - $400k+ and I bet she could be debt free in under 5 years.

It’s a pity she had either poor guidance, poor support network, or an undiagnosed mental health issue that lead her to give up when she already made it.
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Old 06-03-2022, 06:59 AM
 
26,596 posts, read 16,032,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
One underlying issue is the "trade schools" love to get poor kids 100% financing/loans for their education despite them being a poor fit for the program to actually graduate. From fake nursing degrees (not actual RN programs), to radio broadcasting, technical trade schools the students get roped in to a dream that won't actually come to fruition but the debt is theirs. School doesn't care, they got paid with your loan money!
That happens in universities just as often. I know one young woman who spent ten years and many tens of thousands of dollars getting a "General Studies" bachelor's degree from Illinois State University and is literally working as a barista in the ISU Starbucks.

It would happen less often in both cases, particularly the trade schools, if kids actually got competent counselling all through high school.
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Old 06-03-2022, 07:04 AM
 
26,596 posts, read 16,032,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcl View Post
If debt caused depression, everyone with a mortgage would be depressed. That’s a 15 or 30 year deal.
Unless someone is underwater with the mortgage, the house is an asset that becomes more valuable over time, rather than a debt that might grow over time despite making payments.
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Old 06-03-2022, 07:07 AM
 
1,098 posts, read 853,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Unless someone is underwater with the mortgage, the house is an asset that becomes more valuable over time, rather than a debt that might grow over time despite making payments.
Clearly, math or critical thinking weren’t your strongest subject.

A doctors earning potential over time has gone up dramatically.

A person not even paying the interest portion on their loan is a moron.

So your argument is a hypothetical doctor who doesn’t earn more over time and lacks the sense to pay down the principal of their loan
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Old 06-03-2022, 07:21 AM
 
26,596 posts, read 16,032,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcl View Post
Clearly, math or critical thinking weren’t your strongest subject.

A doctors earning potential over time has gone up dramatically.

A person not even paying the interest portion on their loan is a moron.

So your argument is a hypothetical doctor who doesn’t earn more over time and lacks the sense to pay down the principal of their loan
Clearly economics wasn't your strongest subject, if you think that college loan debt is the same thing as mortgage debt.
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Old 06-03-2022, 07:50 AM
 
9,070 posts, read 5,014,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcl View Post
Clearly, math or critical thinking weren’t your strongest subject.

A doctors earning potential over time has gone up dramatically.

A person not even paying the interest portion on their loan is a moron.

So your argument is a hypothetical doctor who doesn’t earn more over time and lacks the sense to pay down the principal of their loan
The problem is that GradPLUS loans have VERY HIGH interest rates. When I was in school, it was 8.5%, plus up to 4% origination. Add in that no one is going to be able to make a dent in this in the first 3-7 years they are out of school in residency making $50-60K a year and are either deferring or on an IBR where they are essentially just paying part of the interest.

Another issue is that women tend to be of the prime childbearing age when they finish residency. A woman who goes straight through K-MD will probably be about 30-32 when she finishes residency. I know someone who waited a bit longer, but it was hard for her to maintain a patient-facing practice after she had two kids. Furthermore, the way to make more over time is to see more patients or recommend more unnecessary procedures. Some people don’t really believe they can provide good patient care if they are seeing 6 patients for 10-minute visits every hour. They may have the mentality that they are not going to recommend surgery unless it is a last resort.
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