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Old 09-14-2022, 10:42 AM
 
16,193 posts, read 14,701,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaEnd View Post
School is a tool, nothing more. In itself it is useless. Only knowledge applied means wisdom.
Not a chance. Self-actualized, non-transactional learning is wonderful and contributes towards wisdom.
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Old 09-14-2022, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
6,992 posts, read 6,076,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaEnd View Post
School is a tool, nothing more. In itself it is useless. Only knowledge applied means wisdom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Not a chance. Self-actualized, non-transactional learning is wonderful and contributes towards wisdom.
It's both. And this is a free country so some people are free to enjoy school while others are free to escape from it as fast as they can.
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Old 09-14-2022, 10:56 AM
 
16,193 posts, read 14,701,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
It's both. And this is a free country so some people are free to enjoy school while others are free to escape from it as fast as they can.
I was commenting particularly about the other guy's line, "Only knowledge applied means wisdom."
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Old 09-14-2022, 11:12 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
98,645 posts, read 97,143,230 times
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What does "everyone leaves school eventually" mean, as an argument against it? He presents that as his first and foremost argument. What does leaving school (i.e. graduating, at least in most cases) have to do with why we shouldn't have school?

If he thinks school is worthless, he should go live someplace, where few people can afford school, even if the only thing they have to pay for is the books. Or even if all they have to pay for is nothing--it's all free, but people are so poor, that the school-age kids have to work to help support the family.

Those are usually countries where the people who DID go to school + university live behind high walls studded with broken glass. They're countries where some of the most poor and discriminated against vote for people who take extreme measures to marginalize them further, and are known to be extremely corrupt. They're countries where some of the people who aren't able to go to school join Communist or Maoist political parties. They are countries in chaos. Frankly, we're headed in that direction ourselves, and loss of access to higher ed plus the deteriorating quality of lower & intermediate ed are part of the problem, definitely not a solution.

Quote:
Dr. Caplan is a professor of economics at George Mason University and the author of “The Case Against Education.”
(from the linked article) More, from Wiki:
Quote:
research fellow at the Mercatus Center, adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute, and former contributor to the Freakonomics blog and EconLog. He currently publishes his own blog, Bet on It. Caplan is a self-described "economic libertarian".
The Cato Institute economists were behind the US gov't coup in Chile, that brought the dictator Pinochet to power, resulting in horrific human rights abuses. (Speaking of places where the well-schooled live behind walls with broken glass...)

Here's Wiki on the Mercatus Center:
Quote:
The Mercatus Center at George Mason University is a libertarian non-profit free-market-oriented research, education, and outreach think tank directed by Tyler Cowen. It works with policy experts, lobbyists, and government officials to connect academic learning and real-world practice. Taking its name from the Latin word for "market", the center advocates free-market approaches to public policy. During the George W. Bush administration's campaign to reduce government regulation, the Wall Street Journal reported, "14 of the 23 rules the White House chose for its 'hit list' to eliminate or modify were Mercatus entries".
[...] The Koch family has been a major financial supporter of the organization since the mid-1980s. Charles Koch serves on the group's board of directors.
Agenda, much, "doctor" Caplan?

Gee, think how much the fed. gov't could save by eliminating public schooling, and the Dept. of Education altogether! More tax breaks for the people at the top of the food chain! No wonder his anti-education stance sounds like it would lead us down the path of Latin American borderline failed states.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 09-14-2022 at 11:32 AM..
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Old 09-14-2022, 11:31 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
98,645 posts, read 97,143,230 times
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Would the person who left me a nice rep note care to identify him/herself via DM? It's nice to encounter kindred spirits.
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Old 09-14-2022, 11:55 AM
 
2,895 posts, read 2,721,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
Personal belief. Schools in USA need a big reform. First, get rid of regulations that prevent school faculty from more quickly removing problem students. Second, make it easier for school faculty to fail and hold back students that fail, especially in elementary grade levels where holding back doesn’t effect them as negatively. Activist teachers and teachers unions seem more focused on pushing their agenda on students instead of teaching the assigned lessons. No student should be moving from elementary school to middle school while still unable to read at even a 3rd grade level. No student should be graduating from middle school to high school without knowing the basics of the US Government and US History as well as a certain level of math, reading, and science. Sadly far too many graduate barely able to read, cannot name the three branches of the US government and give a basic explanation of each branch, and don’t understand the US Constitution and Bill of Rights is to protect the citizens by setting on the US Government.
School/Education truly ISN'T for everybody. The U.S. needs to do like China, and identify at an early age which kids are fit for school/learning/education and which aren't, and put the ones who aren't academically inclined on the path to learning a trade and doing something productive like manual or factory work.

I recall when I was growing, U.S. schools actually did more of that, but then at some point in the 90s, they phased out most of the "Vo-Tech" classes and programs because it became all the rage to push every kid down the 4 year university path, and to shame those who would have preferred to learn a good, solid trade and work with their hands.

Heck, a lot of trade jobs pay way more than going to college for 4+ years to rack up thousands of dollars in debt only to come out with a degree in something like Sociology or Art, where you are doomed to have to work at McDonald's or Starbucks with your college degree, just to try to make ends meet.
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Old 09-14-2022, 01:18 PM
 
11,658 posts, read 15,635,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
I am guessing that you are not making money as a musician, .
Ha, that's not relevant, you asked a question I answered.
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Old 09-14-2022, 01:20 PM
 
11,658 posts, read 15,635,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julio July View Post
School/Education truly ISN'T for everybody. The U.S. needs to do like China, and identify at an early age which kids are fit for school/learning/education and which aren't, and put the ones who aren't academically inclined on the path to learning a trade and doing something productive like manual or factory work.

I recall when I was growing, U.S. schools actually did more of that, but then at some point in the 90s, they phased out most of the "Vo-Tech" classes and programs because it became all the rage to push every kid down the 4 year university path, and to shame those who would have preferred to learn a good, solid trade and work with their hands.

Heck, a lot of trade jobs pay way more than going to college for 4+ years to rack up thousands of dollars in debt only to come out with a degree in something like Sociology or Art, where you are doomed to have to work at McDonald's or Starbucks with your college degree, just to try to make ends meet.
IF what you say is true ... then that money is going in the pocket of the professors and universities who offer Sociology and Art programs.

So at least somebody is profiting.
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Old 09-14-2022, 01:32 PM
 
11,658 posts, read 15,635,760 times
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The other thing I will say is that education is a relatively easy carrot.

By that, I mean, by all of the endeavors you can pursue in life, education has one of the clearer and fairer effort to outcome ratios.

You study a lot ... you get good grades and SATs, you get into an elite college. What that degree is worth in the long run of a career is a different story.

Other goals in the life of an average person are a lot more chaotic and due to a lot of different factors.
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Old 09-14-2022, 03:42 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
25,177 posts, read 25,716,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
I am guessing that you are not making money as a musician, and you are still working as a civil engineer.
Music is so addictive that once you catch that bug, you don't want to have any other passions.

Heck, you can spend your entire life just trying to master Mozart or Beethoven.
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