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Old 09-14-2022, 03:47 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
98,602 posts, read 97,083,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Music is so addictive that once you catch that bug, you don't want to have any other passions.

Heck, you can spend your entire life just trying to master Mozart or Beethoven.
OMG, you said a mouthful! Music can hijack your life!
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Old 09-14-2022, 05:00 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,594 posts, read 1,311,909 times
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I mostly agree. Plenty of stuff worth learning could be done by reading/studying good to excellent books, but those are not what the schools select. It is like they have already decided what you are supposed to think about the subject and supply information/ideas promoting that position.



Like the "Invisible Hand" from Adam Smith. But if you download Wealth of Nations and search it for 'education' he uses that word 80 times.


We should have a K-12 National Recommend Reading List. Maybe more than one. Different people will like and hate different lists.


School is more useful for lab and workshop courses. But just sitting in a classroom listening to a teacher is obsolete.
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Old 09-14-2022, 05:39 PM
 
13,413 posts, read 12,739,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
The New York Times did an entire newspaper section on the question of "What is school for?" with essays contributed on a dozen different subjects

This particular person, Bryan Caplan, thinks that school is mostly pointless. Among other things, it doesn't seem to have crossed his mind that a major thing that school does is introduce kids to areas that may go on to interest them. It's worth noting that the author is a university professor, so clearly he benefitted by schooling.

I totally disagree with him but thought it might be of interest.


School Is for Wasting Time and Money
I have deep doubts about the intellectual and social value of schooling. My argument in a nutshell: First, everyone leaves school eventually. Second, most of what you learn in school doesn’t matter after graduation. Third, human beings soon forget knowledge they rarely use.
When schools shuttered, they stopped performing their sole undeniably valuable function: providing day care. In-person schooling allows parents to work full-time without distraction. In-person schooling allows parents to take care of infants and elders. In-person schooling allows parents to finish their household chores. And in-person schooling allows parents to relax.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/o...knowledge.html
I would hardly called Bryan an authority on this subject.
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Old 09-14-2022, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Wartrace,TN
7,272 posts, read 11,545,723 times
Reputation: 14712
Secondary education is probably essential for most adults in the U.S. but most people really don't need to attend a college or university in order to hold the jobs they currently have. There are plenty of professions that require a degree and even advanced degree's but many do not. Since so many people attend college and earn useless degrees employers feel they can require a degree even for menial jobs like "receptionist", "customer service" or "supervisor". Does it make sense to pay 50k for a job that pays 50k? Plenty of malinvestment in our education "system" these days. I feel sorry for the Starbuck barista that earned a degree @ 50k in psychology in order to make "Grande Slurpees" at Starbucks. (not sorry enough to pay for the degree with my tax dollars though)
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Old 09-14-2022, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Europe
4,742 posts, read 2,857,420 times
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu7RXlIEbog
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Old 09-14-2022, 09:09 PM
 
10,905 posts, read 6,994,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
What does "everyone leaves school eventually" mean, as an argument against it? He presents that as his first and foremost argument. What does leaving school (i.e. graduating, at least in most cases) have to do with why we shouldn't have school?

If he thinks school is worthless, he should go live someplace, where few people can afford school, even if the only thing they have to pay for is the books. Or even if all they have to pay for is nothing--it's all free, but people are so poor, that the school-age kids have to work to help support the family.

Those are usually countries where the people who DID go to school + university live behind high walls studded with broken glass. They're countries where some of the most poor and discriminated against vote for people who take extreme measures to marginalize them further, and are known to be extremely corrupt. They're countries where some of the people who aren't able to go to school join Communist or Maoist political parties. They are countries in chaos. Frankly, we're headed in that direction ourselves, and loss of access to higher ed plus the deteriorating quality of lower & intermediate ed are part of the problem, definitely not a solution.

(from the linked article) More, from Wiki:
The Cato Institute economists were behind the US gov't coup in Chile, that brought the dictator Pinochet to power, resulting in horrific human rights abuses. (Speaking of places where the well-schooled live behind walls with broken glass...)

Here's Wiki on the Mercatus Center:
Agenda, much, "doctor" Caplan?

Gee, think how much the fed. gov't could save by eliminating public schooling, and the Dept. of Education altogether! More tax breaks for the people at the top of the food chain! No wonder his anti-education stance sounds like it would lead us down the path of Latin American borderline failed states.
Ruth, I realize you and I tend to lean in opposite views on many topics. And while I am a deep conservative, I strongly, in the strongest way possible, disagree with pretty much everything CATO publishes. Mainly because how they, in the papers I've looked at, misuse and misstate data to create "assumptions" on a foundation of nothing.
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Old 09-14-2022, 11:37 PM
 
Location: California
6,272 posts, read 7,081,444 times
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Today's schools are a waste of time and money because of the teacher's union agenda infecting our kids.

We need to return to education that includes respect, ethics, critical thinking, and the basic fundamentals such as reading and math. Compare the Tic Tok content to their equivalent from foreign countries. Our kids are be abused and parents need to act like parents and defend their kid's future. School should be a place to grow into citizens who contribute, not set them up for failure.
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Old 09-15-2022, 06:24 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
98,602 posts, read 97,083,138 times
Reputation: 109960
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Ruth, I realize you and I tend to lean in opposite views on many topics. And while I am a deep conservative, I strongly, in the strongest way possible, disagree with pretty much everything CATO publishes. Mainly because how they, in the papers I've looked at, misuse and misstate data to create "assumptions" on a foundation of nothing.
Oh, really? That's news to me. Somehow I only remember a general impression of agreeing with you on some points.

Yes, I researched Cato a couple of years ago. Scary. Thanks for your input.
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Old 09-15-2022, 07:23 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
25,148 posts, read 25,698,932 times
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Another thing that is very ritualistic about school is the obsession so many of them have with sports.

How many people are ever going to have a career as an athlete?

Yet, that is all part of the “game” that is played by our educational system.
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Old 09-15-2022, 08:18 AM
 
545 posts, read 913,691 times
Reputation: 610
Speaking from my own experiences, I don't believe college is that beneficial. I never went to college myself, instead going into the military. In the military there was a big push for us to take classes towards earning a degree. I never did, other than taking a basic math class because I felt pressured to take courses to better myself (it was the company line).

After military retirement I have worked with and around many people who did invest in a college degree. My observation is their return on investment was negative. I have worked side-by-side with people who had degrees, including one guy who had 2 master’s degrees. They didn't seem to be any smarter than me, and in fact the guy with 2 masters seemed kind of slow (book smart but not so real-world smart). Those degree holders I worked side-by-side with did the same job as me, and we earned the same pay. The difference is they were paying off student loans, while I wasn't.
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