ACT scores fall to lowest in 31 years (GRE, colleges, high school)

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by springfieldva

I think it would be helpful to compare/contrast the results with the various approaches to Covid related school closures and procedures.

I would be very surprised if there were not some dramatic differences between the approaches.

I agree with you.

[redguard57]

The covid-related hit to morale and staffing has happened across the country though. I'd also be curious how this played out by state, but even the states that reopened in defiance of covid restrictions are having serious operational issues that have to be impacting student performance. Florida being a prime case.

[Mathguy]

A number of places will blame the tests because there is definitely going to be a disparity across socio-economic lines.

And yes, blaming the teachers is also a well worn trope because blaming parent(s) that have zero to do with their kids education is not what politicians do.

[DAXhound]

I was subbing a first grade music class..not one kid could tie his shoes. The education experts willfully produce substandard students And it is no longer important to know how to multiply and divide. I get half a day for two classes...that's about all I can take.

[springfieldva]

The higher pay angle tends to point the finger at the teachers as being the source of the problem - if teachers were only paid more they would teach better and I don't think that's fair. The reality is that parents own a good amount of the blame.

Barring a learning disability, why doesn't your kid know their ABCs by the time they get into Kindergarten? Why aren't you reading with your fist grader? What haven't you checked out classics for your 5th grader to read? Why haven't you done basic math practice with your kid like memorizing addition, subtraction, multiplication and division tables? Why isn't your kid doing their homework and submitting their assignments on time? Why is your kid skipping classes or not showing up to school at all? Why did your 8 year old stay up until 2am last night?

Teachers can only do so much.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by tnff

I agree with these. As I've said before on here, I'm willing to support increased teacher pay for increased results, including changing the teacher education system as mentioned above. I know how hard it is to get a real masters and a real PhD so when I see educators listing 2-3 masters and 2-3 more doctorates, I have no faith in those degrees. Real degrees in real fields.

Marked for later. Per your comments I want to verify something before I put it in fixed format.

[RamenAddict]

Originally Posted by springfieldva

The higher pay angle tends to point the finger at the teachers as being the source of the problem - if teachers were only paid more they would teach better and I don't think that's fair. The reality is that parents own a good amount of the blame.

Barring a learning disability, why doesn't your kid know their ABCs by the time they get into Kindergarten? Why aren't you reading with your fist grader? What haven't you checked out classics for your 5th grader to read? Why haven't you done basic math practice with your kid like memorizing addition, subtraction, multiplication and division tables? Why isn't your kid doing their homework and submitting their assignments on time? Why is your kid skipping classes or not showing up to school at all? Why did your 8 year old stay up until 2am last night?

Teachers can only do so much.

I don’t think anyone is to blame here. The real issue is that suddenly teachers were expected to do e-learning, but most of the school system hadn’t fully implemented e-learning as a strategy at the time a pandemic came. Suddenly the school is forced to go to e-learning and the teachers were expected to use stuff like zoom and other methods to teach classes. Meanwhile, on the home front, parents find that they may have 2-4 kids at home each having to do online lessons AND share the space with mom and dad. Do they all have space to do the work? Do they have the technology for each child to be in class at the same time? Is the school/district providing help with that.

Then there can be other factors. When everyone was home during the start of the pandemic where I was living, the complex decided to go full speed ahead with a huge construction project that got so loud that there were times I couldn’t stand it unless I had noise canceling headphones AND earplugs in. This was a complex that had almost exclusively 2- and 3-bedroom units, so there were lots of families with kids. There was just no way!

I think the ultimate responsibility falls on school districts for not properly preparing for e-learning in advance and ensuring that the technology and teacher was in place to support it.

[springfieldva]

Originally Posted by RamenAddict

I don’t think anyone is to blame here. The real issue is that suddenly teachers were expected to do e-learning, but most of the school system hadn’t fully implemented e-learning as a strategy at the time a pandemic came. Suddenly the school is forced to go to e-learning and the teachers were expected to use stuff like zoom and other methods to teach classes. Meanwhile, on the home front, parents find that they may have 2-4 kids at home each having to do online lessons AND share the space with mom and dad. Do they all have space to do the work? Do they have the technology for each child to be in class at the same time? Is the school/district providing help with that.

Then there can be other factors. When everyone was home during the start of the pandemic where I was living, the complex decided to go full speed ahead with a huge construction project that got so loud that there were times I couldn’t stand it unless I had noise canceling headphones AND earplugs in. This was a complex that had almost exclusively 2- and 3-bedroom units, so there were lots of families with kids. There was just no way!

I think the ultimate responsibility falls on school districts for not properly preparing for e-learning in advance and ensuring that the technology and teacher was in place to support it.

Oh, there were some major issues with e-learning. No question about it. The kids who were kept out of their brick and mortar schools the longest suffered the most.

I know that my school district allowed parents or students to pick up paper copies of assignments from the school at a drive thru location on campus.

At the same time, as a parent, even if the school had flat out stopped teaching my kids, I would still have kept them on track with assignments at home. If they had to learn Algebra 2, for instance, I would have had them look at some of the online resources - many of which are free. There are ebooks that they could have been reading, too. You don't just throw up your hands and say, oh well, I guess they just won't be learning a thing this year. You have to figure this stuff out as a parent.

[springfieldva]

Originally Posted by redguard57

The covid-related hit to morale and staffing has happened across the country though. I'd also be curious how this played out by state, but even the states that reopened in defiance of covid restrictions are having serious operational issues that have to be impacting student performance. Florida being a prime case.

No, most of the Florida schools were out for a month or so in the spring of 2020 and then the kids went back to school in the fall with Covid protocols in place, of course. They had the option of doing distance learning but few chose that option. They wanted to be back in school with their friends. By the spring of 2021 they had even ditched the masks and the Covid protocols, or so I've been told.

There may have been some counties that were exceptions to that but for the most part schools were open in Florida during the majority of the pandemic. Kids were playing on their sports teams and engaging in their extracurricular activities which actually was what attracted a large number of parents with school age kids to move to Florida.

[cheapdad00]

Originally Posted by springfieldva

The higher pay angle tends to point the finger at the teachers as being the source of the problem - if teachers were only paid more they would teach better and I don't think that's fair. The reality is that parents own a good amount of the blame.

Barring a learning disability, why doesn't your kid know their ABCs by the time they get into Kindergarten? Why aren't you reading with your fist grader? What haven't you checked out classics for your 5th grader to read? Why haven't you done basic math practice with your kid like memorizing addition, subtraction, multiplication and division tables? Why isn't your kid doing their homework and submitting their assignments on time? Why is your kid skipping classes or not showing up to school at all? Why did your 8 year old stay up until 2am last night?

Teachers can only do so much.

My children are past this stage, but I think a lot of this rote learning is now discouraged with common core and "new math" techniques. I know there were certain ways they tried to teach my kids to factor algebraic equations, which while I'm sure they make sense on some levels, were completely backwards to me. I was taught to manipulate the various factors of the constants in order to factor which was easy to do because of all the time spent drilling on multiplication/division tables.