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Old 10-14-2022, 08:28 PM
509
 
5,480 posts, read 5,979,436 times
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The important part that everybody has missed is that ONLY 16% of American students have a chance at being successful in a STEM field.

President Biden is right, the next person walking on the moon will be a woman that is a person of color. The unfortunate part is that she will be a Chinese national, not a American.

Coding is an important skill that has more to do with English than the sciences.

We need more STEM graduates, not more coders.
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Old 10-14-2022, 11:12 PM
 
16,168 posts, read 14,677,227 times
Reputation: 14590
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
The important part that everybody has missed is that ONLY 16% of American students have a chance at being successful in a STEM field.

President Biden is right, the next person walking on the moon will be a woman that is a person of color. The unfortunate part is that she will be a Chinese national, not a American.

Coding is an important skill that has more to do with English than the sciences.

We need more STEM graduates, not more coders.
My wife is recently retired CIO she had hundreds of coders/programmers, PMs, SPMs, Directors etc. etc. in her org. chart. There were hundreds of com-sci, engineering, math, a few MIS degrees represented plus a good number of masters degrees. I'll ask to be sure but best I know there wasn't a single English degree holder, at least not an English degree holder without at least some hard science mixed in.

My wife would also argue we need more degreed coders.
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Old 10-14-2022, 11:45 PM
 
675 posts, read 341,037 times
Reputation: 1736
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
The important part that everybody has missed is that ONLY 16% of American students have a chance at being successful in a STEM field.

President Biden is right, the next person walking on the moon will be a woman that is a person of color. The unfortunate part is that she will be a Chinese national, not a American.

Coding is an important skill that has more to do with English than the sciences.

We need more STEM graduates, not more coders.
Maybe 10-12 years ago we high school teachers were getting ready to start another school year and our principal chose the ideas of Willard Daggett as his talking point. As I recall, Daggett said that the number of graduates in China with science degrees exceeds the number of Americans with a degree in any subject at all. Yes, China is big but it is also focused. If tech is the wave of the future, where does that leave us, then?

Henry Ford supposedly said that you could have your Model T in any color you wanted, as long as you wanted black. I'm guessing the Chinese have a similar attitude about choosing your major. People are a human resource, after all, and wouldn't it be great if we could put them in the best place for the greatest good (personal wants landing a distant second behind what the state needs)? It seems the Chinese have probably invested time and thought into which disciplines will be important in the future to keep their country ahead of the others.

I gathered from that same Daggett presentation that if you drove up to the local McDonald's, the speaker said, "Good morning and welcome to McDonald's, may I take your order please?" So you told them what you wanted, pulled forward, paid, got your food and left. What you didn't realize was that the person you spoke to was somewhere across town, taking orders for multiple McDonald's...-es? It's cheaper to have one guy do it for several locations. Like I said, this was some years ago and I think it was a pilot sort of program but maybe that's where we're headed. Even low level jobs can be lumped together and subsumed

Go get a medical scan and in many places, they digitize it and email it to India or China to be read. Doctors charge less there and their training is often on a par. I'm wondering about where we signed off on that, but we probably did, in the terms of service or something.
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Old 10-15-2022, 06:34 AM
 
9,452 posts, read 5,342,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILTXwhatnext View Post
Maybe 10-12 years ago we high school teachers were getting ready to start another school year and our principal chose the ideas of Willard Daggett as his talking point. As I recall, Daggett said that the number of graduates in China with science degrees exceeds the number of Americans with a degree in any subject at all. Yes, China is big but it is also focused. If tech is the wave of the future, where does that leave us, then?

Henry Ford supposedly said that you could have your Model T in any color you wanted, as long as you wanted black. I'm guessing the Chinese have a similar attitude about choosing your major. People are a human resource, after all, and wouldn't it be great if we could put them in the best place for the greatest good (personal wants landing a distant second behind what the state needs)? It seems the Chinese have probably invested time and thought into which disciplines will be important in the future to keep their country ahead of the others.

I gathered from that same Daggett presentation that if you drove up to the local McDonald's, the speaker said, "Good morning and welcome to McDonald's, may I take your order please?" So you told them what you wanted, pulled forward, paid, got your food and left. What you didn't realize was that the person you spoke to was somewhere across town, taking orders for multiple McDonald's...-es? It's cheaper to have one guy do it for several locations. Like I said, this was some years ago and I think it was a pilot sort of program but maybe that's where we're headed. Even low level jobs can be lumped together and subsumed

Go get a medical scan and in many places, they digitize it and email it to India or China to be read. Doctors charge less there and their training is often on a par. I'm wondering about where we signed off on that, but we probably did, in the terms of service or something.
Yes, I think you are right re China. I had a Chinese coworker who was our budget person. She was brilliant, but did not want to be an accountant. In Beijing, that was what she was going to do. I have also heard from Indians locally that it is similar there. Parents push their kids to do engineering and they have no interest in doing it. Keep in mind that these are both countries that are far more densely populated than the US. The competition is intense.
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Old 10-15-2022, 07:02 AM
 
3,138 posts, read 1,774,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _redbird_ View Post
Kids staring at their cell phones all day? I took a few graduate courses after I retired and it was pretty funny to sit in class and look around and see all the students staring at their cell phones.

We used to actually talk to each other before class. That's my old man coming out! LOL
Cell phones, social media, video games. Kids can't math today, and they can't read. And they don't really HAVE to.
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Old 10-15-2022, 07:21 AM
 
675 posts, read 341,037 times
Reputation: 1736
Quote:
Originally Posted by _redbird_ View Post
Kids staring at their cell phones all day? I took a few graduate courses after I retired and it was pretty funny to sit in class and look around and see all the students staring at their cell phones.

We used to actually talk to each other before class. That's my old man coming out! LOL
I'm sorely tempted to get one of these tee shirts:

https://www.blaroken.com/products/i-...hoCosoQAvD_BwE
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Old 10-15-2022, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,355 posts, read 1,923,265 times
Reputation: 3513
I've read the articles maintaining that the SAT/ACT are inherently racist. Not sure how you would overhaul them to meet acceptable criteria.
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Old 10-15-2022, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Sarasota County FL
19,821 posts, read 7,834,967 times
Reputation: 14597
Overall, government fails at everything it does. Of course there are exceptions, but generally speaking gov't education is a failure, and it keeps falling down the international rankings.

Its not due to cost either, because the USA spends more than many countries who have better results.

I'd love to see the private school versus public school ACT scores. I'll bet they hide those from public view as much as they possibly can. I'd love to see those stats as a nationwide aggregate....not cherry picked by county, or state.

Last edited by beach43ofus; 10-15-2022 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 10-15-2022, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,489 posts, read 6,282,643 times
Reputation: 16380
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Overall, government fails at everything it does. Of course there are exceptions, but generally speaking gov't education is a failure, and keep falling down the international rankings.

Its not due to cost either, because the USA spends more than many countries who have better results.

I'd love to see the private school versus public school ACT scores. I'll bet they hide those from public view as much as they possibly can. I'd love to see those stats as a nationwide aggregate....not cherry picked by county, or state.
Do other countries' governments don't fail? But ours does?
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Old 10-15-2022, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
9,138 posts, read 5,725,783 times
Reputation: 13183
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
..

...I'd love to see the private school versus public school ACT scores.
You will find that the private schools score higher. However, if a control for family income and parents’ level of educational achievement is applied then the advantage is eliminated.
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