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Old 10-12-2022, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,466 posts, read 6,274,613 times
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https://www.axios.com/2022/10/12/act...niors-covid-19

The pandemic closures caused a MESS.

This is the first cohort that had 2 whole years disrupted by Covid. I expect this is going to get worse before it gets better.
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Old 10-12-2022, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
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Quote:
Between the lines: Standardized testing has come under scrutiny, with critics arguing that such tests are biased in favor of affluent students and unfair to minority students, Axios reported.
I knew before I read the article that affluent students fared better than poor students. Private schools didn't shut down for as long or rich public-school parents pooled their resources for tutoring pods, and rich parents made sure their kids studied. Poor parents were at the mercy of teachers' unions, and single Moms and grandparents raising kids had no control over them.

We all knew this data was coming.
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Old 10-12-2022, 01:42 PM
 
16,137 posts, read 14,656,767 times
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Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
I knew before I read the article that affluent students fared better than poor students. Private schools didn't shut down for as long or rich public-school parents pooled their resources for tutoring pods, and rich parents made sure their kids studied. Poor parents were at the mercy of teachers' unions, and single Moms and grandparents raising kids had no control over them.

We all knew this data was coming.
The downward trend began well before Covid.
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Old 10-12-2022, 02:26 PM
 
385 posts, read 111,805 times
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Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
The downward trend began well before Covid.

What is the cause? Can it be fixed?
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Old 10-12-2022, 03:28 PM
 
16,137 posts, read 14,656,767 times
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Originally Posted by perennial millennial View Post
What is the cause? Can it be fixed?
A. I'm not a K-12 expert.
B. Per age my kids are way beyond the ACT/SAT etc. so I pay way less attention than in the past.
C. That said I have opinions. For at least 10 years I've maintained our K-12 downward spiral of lower and lower expectations, more and more excuses, more and more grade inflation, more and more HS grads with great grades flopping the SAT/ACT and then struggling in college* etc. etc. pose nothing short of an oncoming national security problem.

Likely nowhere else do we spend so much money and achieve such poor results.

I don't have a comprehensive plan to fix K-12. I do believe a few places to start would be:

A. Grossly reform university based education colleges. FE end or greatly curtail EdD degrees - while some are legitimate and very rigorous most are laughed at by everyone else in academia. As one of the pro-teacher CD forum members noted once most EdD degrees are less impressive than masters degrees in other areas and Ed masters degrees often less impressive that BS degrees in other areas.
B. If teachers want better pay and benefits - expect that the bulk of teachers come from the top 1/3 of college graduates instead of the bottom 1/3.
C. Mostly for say 8th grade and up open teaching to contextual experts, open up more efforts like teach for America.
D. Realize that academic merit is real. The correct answer is important, past about 3rd grade anyway. Math is not racist. Little Jimmy should not be allowed to self-ID as a cat, dog or goat etc. etc. etc.
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Old 10-12-2022, 07:56 PM
 
10,889 posts, read 6,978,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
A. I'm not a K-12 expert.
B. Per age my kids are way beyond the ACT/SAT etc. so I pay way less attention than in the past.
C. That said I have opinions. For at least 10 years I've maintained our K-12 downward spiral of lower and lower expectations, more and more excuses, more and more grade inflation, more and more HS grads with great grades flopping the SAT/ACT and then struggling in college* etc. etc. pose nothing short of an oncoming national security problem.

Likely nowhere else do we spend so much money and achieve such poor results.

I don't have a comprehensive plan to fix K-12. I do believe a few places to start would be:

A. Grossly reform university based education colleges. FE end or greatly curtail EdD degrees - while some are legitimate and very rigorous most are laughed at by everyone else in academia. As one of the pro-teacher CD forum members noted once most EdD degrees are less impressive than masters degrees in other areas and Ed masters degrees often less impressive that BS degrees in other areas.
B. If teachers want better pay and benefits - expect that the bulk of teachers come from the top 1/3 of college graduates instead of the bottom 1/3.
C. Mostly for say 8th grade and up open teaching to contextual experts, open up more efforts like teach for America.
D. Realize that academic merit is real. The correct answer is important, past about 3rd grade anyway. Math is not racist. Little Jimmy should not be allowed to self-ID as a cat, dog or goat etc. etc. etc.
I agree with these. As I've said before on here, I'm willing to support increased teacher pay for increased results, including changing the teacher education system as mentioned above. I know how hard it is to get a real masters and a real PhD so when I see educators listing 2-3 masters and 2-3 more doctorates, I have no faith in those degrees. Real degrees in real fields.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:34 PM
 
12,343 posts, read 12,878,758 times
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They need to break the numbers down state by state, county by county to see the true picture.

I would about guarantee that students fared a whole better in the states that reopened brick and mortar schools early on in the pandemic or never closed them at all.

Right now they have mixed up all the numbers and come up with these averages. So I don't know that we are even seeing the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the damage done in some parts of the country.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:54 PM
 
16,137 posts, read 14,656,767 times
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Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
They need to break the numbers down state by state, county by county to see the true picture.

I would about guarantee that students fared a whole better in the states that reopened brick and mortar schools early on in the pandemic or never closed them at all.

Right now they have mixed up all the numbers and come up with these averages. So I don't know that we are even seeing the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the damage done in some parts of the country.
The do, or at least used to, publish scores by state, sex, race etc. Many individual high schools publish ACT/SAT/NMSF etc.

People on all side of the political spectrum see waves of educational damage coming per covid and various local responses.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:58 PM
 
12,343 posts, read 12,878,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
The do, or at least used to, publish scores by state, sex, race etc. Many individual high schools publish ACT/SAT/NMSF etc.

People on all side of the political spectrum see waves of educational damage coming per covid and various local responses.
I think it would be helpful to compare/contrast the results with the various approaches to Covid related school closures and procedures.

I would be very surprised if there were not some dramatic differences between the approaches.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:16 PM
 
670 posts, read 337,849 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I agree with these. As I've said before on here, I'm willing to support increased teacher pay for increased results, including changing the teacher education system as mentioned above.
I suggest we keep "delta," i.e. change, in mind. Imagine on the first day of school a teacher of 9th grade English gets a student with a 6th grade reading ability. If the student reaches a 7th grade reading ability by the end of the year, that's one year of progress for one year of school. I'd say the teacher taught him, so don't fire him (remember, the student is still behind). If the student reaches an 8th grade ability, that's two years progress in one year---a great success---but they'restill behind. When I was a freshman I think we read "Great Expectations" and "Romeo and Juliet." That gets into literary devices and other things.

Suppose that reading level test result comes back at 6.85. If we're going to be sciencey about it, what mathematical correction should we make if the student were absent, say, 15% of the year? Absences are not the teacher's fault, and I think a lot of people would say, "Right, but the student can come in for tutoring or do the work at home." True. When I was teaching full time and parents wanted to know what their child could do to pass, I told them that for one thing, tutoring was available. And the students very very very rarely came in for it. And when I told the parents that the kid who promised, hand on heart, in front of us adults never appeared? Most sighed but didn't do much of anything about it. You can lead a horse to water.

I think we should also correct for how much is spent on each student. If you found an average in a state, say $15,000 per student, and the school for that teacher only spends 90% of that, shouldn't there be a correction to the number cited." And there needs to be some adjustment for people teaching in gangland Detroit vs. a small New England town that is straight out of Norman Rockwell.

Wait, this was English class, right? What about writing ability? Grammar, capitalization, punctuation, spelling...? And presumably we're going to do this for all 7 or 8 courses they take. Some, like first-year Spanish, don't have a test from last year to compare. Some, like health, are one semester classes. I guess you can give pre-test and compare it to the post-test. But hey, we already test them to death. More of it can't be the answer.

And really the idea that so many suffered during COVID, we have to correct for that too. At some point it all becomes mathematical nonsense. My fellow educators will probably figure "accountability" is a straw man setup because we're so routinely blamed, anyway.
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