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View Poll Results: Which would you take?
25% financial gain. Better pay, better insurance, more in your school budget, etc. 5 71.43%
25% better working conditions. Better parent involvement, better admin support, more useful PD, less high stakes testing 2 28.57%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-24-2022, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,469 posts, read 6,274,613 times
Reputation: 16375

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Well, for some of us it would be the love of the profession.
None of us would have gotten into it without "the love." But at some point love don't pay the bills.

When I started in education, which was 2010, the pay and benefits were actually pretty decent. I was making about the same as most of my peers in other fields. It's the fact that administrations and boards everywhere seem absolutelydetermined to never give us raises and never acknowledge inflation nor cost of living.

I've been trying to figure out how states and systems handled this problem in the 70s - early 80s. From what research I've done, there was a teacher shortage in the early 80s too.
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Old 10-24-2022, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
45,044 posts, read 19,733,764 times
Reputation: 29729
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
None of us would have gotten into it without "the love." But at some point love don't pay the bills.

When I started in education, which was 2010, the pay and benefits were actually pretty decent. I was making about the same as most of my peers in other fields. It's the fact that administrations and boards everywhere seem absolutelydetermined to never give us raises and never acknowledge inflation nor cost of living.

I've been trying to figure out how states and systems handled this problem in the 70s - early 80s. From what research I've done, there was a teacher shortage in the early 80s too.
I agree...almost...that the vast majority got into it with the love of the profession (or at least what we thought the profession was.

I also agree that teacher salaries are not satisfactory.

I do wish you wouldn't lump all educational administrators together. As a principal I had ZERO influence on what the Board Of Education did regarding salaries. ZERO. NADA.

Teacher shortages have almost always been dependent on subject area or grade level. I never had a problem filling a history or English position. Resumes were a dime a dozen. Math and science...sometimes very difficult. Never had a problem filling PE slots. Some other electives were more of challenge, although only foreign language ever became problematic (particularly Latin and to some degree French).
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Old 10-24-2022, 08:00 PM
 
5,008 posts, read 2,425,873 times
Reputation: 6698
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I felt that way as a teacher. I loved my profession. I was proud of it.

But you think not loving your profession is wise?
I would neither be a mercenary nor a missionary.

I think keeping a distance between your passion and your job is wise.
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Old 10-24-2022, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,469 posts, read 6,274,613 times
Reputation: 16375
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I agree...almost...that the vast majority got into it with the love of the profession (or at least what we thought the profession was.

I also agree that teacher salaries are not satisfactory.

I do wish you wouldn't lump all educational administrators together. As a principal I had ZERO influence on what the Board Of Education did regarding salaries. ZERO. NADA.

Teacher shortages have almost always been dependent on subject area or grade level. I never had a problem filling a history or English position. Resumes were a dime a dozen. Math and science...sometimes very difficult. Never had a problem filling PE slots. Some other electives were more of challenge, although only foreign language ever became problematic (particularly Latin and to some degree French).
I know principals don't control salaries either. They are management but don't control the money. I'm more referring to system/district level admins and boards.

Yeah but you've been retired a while haven't you? The shortage has now become more of a draught for the sciences and has now become basic "shortage" for the lib arts. Started about 2 years prior to Covid, we saw applicant pool size start to evaporate rapidly. Then covid hit and it was like the water was ALL boiled off. We had to BEG a part-timer to go FT for an English position, and for STEM it is hopeless now; we had multiple failed searches last year.

A lot of candiates brazenly told us they want more money or they're not coming. Typically they wanted mid 60s to start which is about 10-12k more from the max we can offer.

What appears to be happenning is we're not competing with other schools as much as we are other careers. The same careers are pulling on our established faculty, even.

I'm on negotiations team this year and it's going to get lit. We have resolved that if we don't get upwards of 12-15% raises we're striking.
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Old 10-24-2022, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
45,044 posts, read 19,733,764 times
Reputation: 29729
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
I know principals don't control salaries either. They are management but don't control the money. I'm more referring to system/district level admins and boards.

Yeah but you've been retired a while haven't you? The shortage has now become more of a draught for the sciences and has now become basic "shortage" for the lib arts. Started about 2 years prior to Covid, we saw applicant pool size start to evaporate rapidly. Then covid hit and it was like the water was ALL boiled off. We had to BEG a part-timer to go FT for an English position, and for STEM it is hopeless now; we had multiple failed searches last year.

A lot of candiates brazenly told us they want more money or they're not coming. Typically they wanted mid 60s to start which is about 10-12k more from the max we can offer.

What appears to be happenning is we're not competing with other schools as much as we are other careers. The same careers are pulling on our established faculty, even.

I'm on negotiations team this year and it's going to get lit. We have resolved that if we don't get upwards of 12-15% raises we're striking.
Sounds like a strike to me.

To be honest, I think one of the biggest problems is that schools are under too much of a microscope by the public. People -- teachers and administrators -- feel beaten down.
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