U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-29-2022, 09:16 AM
 
3,020 posts, read 1,100,667 times
Reputation: 6014

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Private schools have always been weak in the arts, though, if they had any arts programs at all...
Incorrect.

For example,

https://www.harker.org/upper-school/...erforming-arts

and

https://www.harker.org/upper-school/...rs/visual-arts

Harker has a strong academic focus as well, sending a large fraction of its graduates to MIT, CalTech, Ivy League universities, Chicago, Stanford, Berkeley, CMC, Harvey Mudd, Carnegie-Mellon, Georgia Tech and the like.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-29-2022, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Concord, CA
6,871 posts, read 8,162,536 times
Reputation: 24271
Kids learn a lot about STEM subjects from their parents and grandparents.

For example, yesterday when my 3 year old grand daughter observed the apparent bent straw in her glass of apple juice, I explained to her that light slows down due to passing through the liquid and that makes the straw appear bent.

When I was a kid my father could not have explained that to me.

Education is not the sole responsibility of the schools. Kids can learn from many resources.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2022, 10:32 AM
 
3,020 posts, read 1,100,667 times
Reputation: 6014
"You go talk to kindergarteners or first grade kids, you find a class full of science enthusiasts. And they ask deep questions!

They ask:
  • What is a dream?
  • Why do we have toes?
  • Why is the moon round?
  • What is the birthday of the world?
  • Why is the grass green?
These are profound, important questions. They just bubble right out of them.
You go talk to 12th graders and there's none of that. They've become incurious.

Something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade."
-- Carl Sagan
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2022, 10:50 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
98,562 posts, read 96,995,185 times
Reputation: 109878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
Kids learn a lot about STEM subjects from their parents and grandparents.

For example, yesterday when my 3 year old grand daughter observed the apparent bent straw in her glass of apple juice, I explained to her that light slows down due to passing through the liquid and that makes the straw appear bent.

When I was a kid my father could not have explained that to me.

Education is not the sole responsibility of the schools. Kids can learn from many resources.
When I was a kid, straws were designed to bend. They were articulated in the top 1/3, for kids.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2022, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Dessert
9,386 posts, read 5,208,620 times
Reputation: 24245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
When I was a kid, straws were designed to bend. They were articulated in the top 1/3, for kids.
This would be so sad if you were sincere.

Last edited by steiconi; 10-29-2022 at 11:37 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2022, 11:39 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
98,562 posts, read 96,995,185 times
Reputation: 109878
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
Your flawed "corporation-is-a-4-letter-word" ideology belongs in P&OC.
The science, economics, and politics involved in the issues the poster raised, whom I was responding to, are complex. Your dismissal of the facts is a good example of what happens, when the education system fails to foster natural inquisitiveness, analytical and research skills, and a holistic worldview.

The resistance to the scientific developments the poster mentioned, that's encountered at home and around the world, is not due to a some mysterious, general "fear" of scientific advancement stemming from poor science education, as the OP posited, nor due to a superficial "image problem". On the contrary; one of the leaders fighting the widespread adoption of GMO seeds in India is a physicist who has inspired activists worldwide.

Scientific developments meet resistance when those implementing them fail to take into account the environmental and human costs, or when there are unforeseen consequences, or when there's a hidden agenda behind their adoption and widespread use.

The effects of nuclear waste leaking into the natural environment also pertain to science. The effects of GMO seeds spreading into fields of precious heirloom varieties, and the reasons why the preservation of heirloom varieties is important, certainly pertain to science. Who is it, who fears and attempts to suppress, that side of the scientific equation?

Ideally, science education would equip students to investigate developments thoroughly, as to potential undesirable effects.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 10-29-2022 at 12:03 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2022, 12:26 PM
 
212 posts, read 104,696 times
Reputation: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
"These are profound, important questions. They just bubble right out of them. You go talk to 12th graders and there's none of that. They've become incurious.

Something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade."
-- Carl Sagan
At one point I found that quote activating. But very quickly after getting into high school science teaching I found out it was wrong in it's implications even if more or less correct. High school students still have many of those questions. They have simply been trained to believe that they are not the types of questions that matter in an adult world. For better or worse, they have also been trained that they are rapidly approaching an adult world. Education isn't what is destroying or hiding the curiosity; it is the fact that unfocused curiosity isn't rewarded in our adult society.

I also have a slight bone to pick with an earlier note.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
The DoD, NASA, National Academy, and professional societies all recognize the issue. The AIP/APS has studied physics education and found less than a third of physics teachers have a degree in field from an degree granting university.
While this is true the methodology might be suspect. The last such survey I saw counted me as not having a degree in the field. I have a BS and an MS in engineering and an MS in science education. Many other physics teachers I know are ex-engineers that also count as not having a degree in field. I don't believe that these teachers are holding back the educational system.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2022, 01:11 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
98,562 posts, read 96,995,185 times
Reputation: 109878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Physics Guy View Post
At one point I found that quote activating. But very quickly after getting into high school science teaching I found out it was wrong in it's implications even if more or less correct. .
Carl Sagan himself limited scientific inquiry. He would declare avenues of inquiry off-limits and "unscientific", by labeling them "woo-woo". But some people's "woo" is the stuff of future scientific discoveries. Gravity used to be considered "woo". Science is about investigating, not suppressing inquiry. Orthodoxies work against genuine inquiry, and Sagan was a purveyor of the prevailing scientific orthodoxy. He advocated putting on blinders. This is not how progress is made.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2022, 01:16 PM
 
3,020 posts, read 1,100,667 times
Reputation: 6014
Factually incorrect again. Your personal attacks are not appreciated.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2022, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Dessert
9,386 posts, read 5,208,620 times
Reputation: 24245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
The nuclear waste disposal issue has never been resolved. The GMO food issue is very complex. That GMO's can "feed the world" is what their purveyors want the public to believe. They were a major boondoggle in India, because traditional farmers couldn't afford to buy new seeds every year as required by the GMO companies, nor the weed-control chemicals that were a required part of the package. The result was a corporate takeover of farmland, that met tremendous resistance. And some of the GMO's aren't safe; they have pesticides built into them, that the companies holding the patents claim are safe for human consumption. That's the reason they're banned in Europe.

An additional problem is, that the companies holding the patents for GMO seeds can sue neighboring property owners, if GMO seeds blow onto their property and result in GMO plants infiltrating the property. In this way, they're able to take over more land, displacing traditional farmers. It's hugely political. India, Mexico with its prized heirloom varieties of corn, and other developing countries don't want US corporations taking over their agricultural sector.

Actually, the pollen blows onto private land, introducing the modified genes into many of the seeds produced by non-gmo plants. THEN the corporation sues the farmer for "stealing" the genes.
In a perfect world, the small farmers should be compensated by the corporations for the contamination.

Genetic modifications CAN be useful in creating plants that will produce higher yields or grow in poorer conditions. It's when the corporations get involved like this, with profit the only motive, that things go so badly wrong.

GMO is not really the problem; it's corporate greed.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2023, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top