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Old 11-20-2022, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
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I write in a hybrid of printing and cursive when I write, I find it unbelievable that a young person today would not be able to recognize what I've written or write something in longhand themselves.... that sounds bizarre.
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Old 11-20-2022, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
I've seen articles bemoaning the decision to stop teaching cursive writing In school. But it hadn't occurred to me that this means that younger people literally can't read old manuscripts

How will they interpret the past?
No, most of these history students admitted, they could not read manuscripts. If they were assigned a research paper, they sought subjects that relied only on published sources. One student reshaped his senior honors thesis for this purpose; another reported that she did not pursue her interest in Virginia Woolf for an assignment that would have involved reading Woolf’s handwritten letters. In the future, cursive will have to be taught to scholars the way Elizabethan secretary hand or paleography is today.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...istory/671246/
They're not teaching medieval Latin, Old English, or hieroglyphics in elementary school as far as I know, so people who want to read the Magna Carta or Beowulf or some inscription on a tomb in the Valley of the Kings are going to have to learn to read the necessary language. True, transcriptions are available, but not for everything. And learning a script written in one's own language and alphabet, even if it is somewhat different, is orders of magnitude less time-consuming than learning entire new languages (and, yes, Old English might as well be a foreign language to speakers of modern English, complete with several letters that we no longer use).

It hardly seems to be some problem of note that anyone who wants to read Virginia Woolf's handwriting needs to spend what might amount to an hour or two of study in order to acquire the necessary skill to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenstyle View Post
When was the verb “writing” changed to *cursive?*
Printing words was taught in the first grade,
writing words was taught in second grade.
I've always known it as cursive - I'm 53, and I learned it in the late 1970s in the upper Midwest. But someone somewhere else might've learned it as writing. So? I learned that fizzy sweet drinks are pop. In California and New England, among other places, they're soda. When I enlisted and was shipped to the South, I discovered that coke is the generic name for such drinks. That's just how language works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahann25 View Post
It’s pathetic when young people can’t even sign their name to a check. Writing in cursive is an important skill that doesn’t take too long to master. If schools won’t teach it, then parents (and grandparents) need to step up and help those children.
I have three children in their twenties. None of them have ever had a checkbook, and none of them have ever had a reason to write a check. I'm in my fifties, and haven't written a check in years, nor has my wife. Personal checks are a dying technology. Teaching cursive to children so that when they graduate they'll be able to sign the checks, despite the fact that in 2032 when they graduate from high school they won't even know what a check is, seems rather pointless.

Pulling this back to the subject of history, this is how societies tend to react to technologies. There is a lot of doom and gloom about the general loss of a skill, but society moves on none the worse. Starting a fire with a hand drill, using a sextant for navigation, shoeing a horse, using a slide-rule, driving a manual, using a card catalog: the need for certain skills fade.
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Old 11-20-2022, 02:35 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
A century ago it was normal for Latin to be taught in classrooms, but it is pretty uncommon today. There is still a purpose for it for people who want to use it, but for the general population, it has no real utility. I would imagine that at that time when they started taking it out of the classroom, much of the arguments are similar. Nonetheless, people seem to get along fine without it.

I learned how to write cursive but I don’t think I can do it now. That is not to say that I don’t do other tasks that require fine and gross manipulation. I enjoy pottery for example and also like to sew, so there are plenty of other avenues for those things. Even playing video games requires a lot of fine and gross manipulation and it requires a good reaction time as well. Those are just a couple of examples. As things progress, certain tasks/practices fall out of favor while others come in that teach the same skills. People interested in the older ways are still able to learn them.
A century ago 6th Grade (or maybe 8th) was Senior year for the vast majority of school goers. Those that were left were, almost by default, college bound where Latin, and to an extent Greek, was the lingua franca for a lot of the courses then taught.

Some very recent studies are starting to show that kids who play video games more than three hours a day show better impulse control and working memory than those who either don't play them or play less than the three hours.

That three hours is a kicker, though, compared to the time spent on cursive practice in school, likely half an hour or so.

https://scitechdaily.com/brain-devel...-kids-smarter/
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Old 11-20-2022, 02:41 PM
 
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My Dad, who was born before 1930, always struggled with cursive. He had to think about how to write his signature. He could print really well, though, and pretty quickly. In the days of typewriters, his printing was the same size as 10 point type, so his secretaries knew immediately how much paper would be needed to type his reports and memos. I think the teachers forcing him to write right handed may have been the issue, but who knows now. My maternal grandmother, however, could write cursive with either hand, which was a great skill for a teacher, since she could just change hands instead of continually moving while writing on the blackboard.

Learning to read different alphabets isn't that difficult. Over the years, I've taught myself Greek, Cyrillic, and Arabic alphabets, both printed and cursive.
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Old 11-20-2022, 02:47 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
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Yeah, your dad's issue was likely the forced switching to right handedness which also scrambles the brain to an extent. Catholic school?
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Old 11-20-2022, 02:51 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
10,021 posts, read 16,624,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
I've always known it as cursive - I'm 53, and I learned it in the late 1970s in the upper Midwest. But someone somewhere else might've learned it as writing. So? I learned that fizzy sweet drinks are pop. In California and New England, among other places, they're soda. When I enlisted and was shipped to the South, I discovered that coke is the generic name for such drinks. That's just how language works.
Yep, my parents are in their 60s and 70s (from Pennsylvania) and they have always called it cursive. I don't know how people reach the ages they do without understanding that the entire rest of the world is not defined by their own personal experiences and that's not some kind of atrocity.

Quote:
Pulling this back to the subject of history, this is how societies tend to react to technologies. There is a lot of doom and gloom about the general loss of a skill, but society moves on none the worse. Starting a fire with a hand drill, using a sextant for navigation, shoeing a horse, using a slide-rule, driving a manual, using a card catalog: the need for certain skills fade.
And none of that is a bad thing. Half the responses here sound like they just can't deal with the fact that the world isn't exactly the same as it was when they were younger, lol. If the world didn't evolve, it would never progress and we'd all still be living as cave people.
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Old 11-20-2022, 03:33 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
14,495 posts, read 8,468,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenstyle View Post
When was the verb “writing” changed to *cursive?*
Printing words was taught in the first grade,
writing words was taught in second grade.
You might not have been informed of the term "cursive" by your teacher.
That is the name. I think it was 2nd grade.


I cannot think of any field of business or academia where learning cursive is not beneficial. Maybe some think it isn't needed but it does have benefits beyond just longhand writing and reading cursive. Just the act of learning and mastering cursive provides certain skills.

We see things being dropped from school curricula based on some misplaced notion of utility or prioritization. Learning a foreign language is another example. There are revealing conceptual and logical aspects that are manifested in other languages that are not adequately expressed in English. We see some of that in borrowed words or phrases.
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Old 11-20-2022, 03:49 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,435 posts, read 5,033,255 times
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I learned to read and write Russian cursive in just a few weeks as an adult even though I was not even totally fluent at reading Cyrillic print. I am pretty sure someone who fluently reads and writes English as their first language can pick up English cursive very quickly. Most of the letters look basically the same as print letters anyway, just linked up. If someone is too lazy to do this then probably that graduate research would not have gone very well for them overall. I mean, people learn entirely new languages from scratch, often dead languages, to do grad research.
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Old 11-20-2022, 03:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Yeah, your dad's issue was likely the forced switching to right handedness which also scrambles the brain to an extent. Catholic school?
Not Catholic school. Public school in a small, at the time, city East of Houston.
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Old 11-20-2022, 05:11 PM
 
21,162 posts, read 6,842,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciceropolo View Post
Interesting, I recently was reading a discovered box of old letters of correspondence from my deceased mom, who as a teenager wrote to her older brothers during world war two. The correspondence between them was more eligible than many written things I encounter from work and in everyday life which is printed / written.

The high school she went to had calligraphy and handwriting classes (shorthand) as part of business school coursework.

I think the influence of keyboard with PCs is impacting ability to write cursive as I surmise many children once they learn alphabet, if they have mobile devices / pc's in schools etc... begin printing and writing via a keyboard.

Personally, I think teaching cursive is important to motor skills (manual dexterity) and spatial translation. For example, the ability to write something quickly without looking at what you are doing based on muscle memory from learning the cursive process. On the other hand, the Romans only used printed capital characters so civilization is not dependent on it.

The public school I attended taught printing in 1st grade and 2nd grade we learned cursive. Still remember the large samples of cursive on lined charts which were hanging on upper walls with the alphabet and the numbers showing the proper formation of said characters.
Short hand is a different kettle of fish and then you have variations within shorthand.
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