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My understanding is that the teachers think the number one problem in schools today are the parents. Either they completely ignore what their kids do or they're constantly screaming at the teachers when their kids misbehave and get punished or get less than a stellar grade.
After that, the problems seem to be disruptive and/or violent kids in class that are never disciplined or removed, followed by principals and school boards never having the backs of the teachers.
Seems to me you can tear down and rebuild up the educational system a million times and until you take care of these problems, nothing is going to do any good.
But what is the real percentage who are like that in most schools? No doubt there's a percentage like that in all schools. And perhaps most in some schools. But not most parents in most schools.
But what is the real percentage who are like that in most schools? No doubt there's a percentage like that in all schools. And perhaps most in some schools. But not most parents in most schools.
I think the opposing argument is that you don’t actually need most parents in most schools to be problematic. If you get even a handful or two in your classes, they can end up eating a lot of your time. In the case of the disruptive student whose parent(s) are not involved, they can eat up the other students’ time too.
I think the opposing argument is that you don’t actually need most parents in most schools to be problematic. If you get even a handful or two in your classes, they can end up eating a lot of your time. In the case of the disruptive student whose parent(s) are not involved, they can eat up the other students’ time too.
Oh, I absolutely agree on that. My issue is why let those few dominate everything? Why waste everyone's time and energy on the disrupters? Kick 'em out.
Oh, I absolutely agree on that. My issue is why let those few dominate everything? Why waste everyone's time and energy on the disrupters? Kick 'em out.
My understanding is that is largely based on how supportive the administration is to teachers. For example, I had a friend who had her first job where all the teachers kicked out their worst kids who were made into a new set of classes that my friend had to teach. She ended up having ALL the bad kids with absolutely no support. She was not able to send them out if they were causing problems. Interestingly enough, I have a friend who had a child who was a disrupter. I think she removed him from school his sophomore year and sent him to a charter for troublemakers. He was behind and not slated to graduate on time. The charter was a self-paced school and he was actually able to make up everything and finish on time. I think he was like a smart guy who was just bored in class, which was something I saw quite a bit when I was teaching.
You have some kids who are not getting the supports they need and acting up because they need an IEP, or others who are just too smart. I remember when I did my internship, I had one girl who acted up a lot. When I talked to her about it, she said it was her last chance to pass Freshman English before aging out and she wish she had an IEP. She said that she just didn’t get it, but her father wasn’t involved enough to help her get the help she needed.
My understanding is that is largely based on how supportive the administration is to teachers. For example, I had a friend who had her first job where all the teachers kicked out their worst kids who were made into a new set of classes that my friend had to teach. She ended up having ALL the bad kids with absolutely no support. She was not able to send them out if they were causing problems. Interestingly enough, I have a friend who had a child who was a disrupter. I think she removed him from school his sophomore year and sent him to a charter for troublemakers. He was behind and not slated to graduate on time. The charter was a self-paced school and he was actually able to make up everything and finish on time. I think he was like a smart guy who was just bored in class, which was something I saw quite a bit when I was teaching.
You have some kids who are not getting the supports they need and acting up because they need an IEP, or others who are just too smart. I remember when I did my internship, I had one girl who acted up a lot. When I talked to her about it, she said it was her last chance to pass Freshman English before aging out and she wish she had an IEP. She said that she just didn’t get it, but her father wasn’t involved enough to help her get the help she needed.
Speaking to that point, when I was in school there was one clique of girls who were very smart but worked together to disrupt class. Esp algebra. Just as the teacher started, one of them would ask a dumb question about yesterday. So, he would stop and spend 10 minutes going over it again. Then just as he'd get back to today's lesson, the next girl in the clique would ask the exact same question. They would repeat this in turn until they had wasted over half the class period. Then next day, same routine. He never caught on that they were doing it on purpose and having a big giggle over it. And the rest of us were frustrated that they got away with it.
My understanding is that the teachers think the number one problem in schools today are the parents. Either they completely ignore what their kids do or they're constantly screaming at the teachers when their kids misbehave and get punished or get less than a stellar grade.
After that, the problems seem to be disruptive and/or violent kids in class that are never disciplined or removed, followed by principals and school boards never having the backs of the teachers.
Seems to me you can tear down and rebuild up the educational system a million times and until you take care of these problems, nothing is going to do any good.
I just finished a long term subbing position but I taught full time for over 30 years. To your first point...
I had a student who gave me problems. She wouldn't put her cell phone away, for one thing, so I called her mother. Her mother told me that yes, daughter was texting HER so it was ok. And when told that the class rule (actually a school rule but not all teachers enforce it) was no cell phones during class unless authorized by teacher. She said, "Well I sometimes need to communicate with her sometimes so I'd like her to have it out." I explained that it didn't work that way. The student and I continued to butt heads, I contacted admin. At semester, the most beautiful thing happened: she changed schedules, never to return. Wait, not quite: after a week or two she started stopping by to visit friends in the class who didn't leave. In her mind, she's showing me that she got the better of me. Isn't that precious?
I suspect a lot of schools offer good educations to students who want to learn. Or, to students whose parents expect them to learn. But if parents don't care, the kids can slip through the cracks pretty easily. Some might say that if enough parents don't care, does it need to be fixed? If you had a business, say, selling mediocre pizzas and enough people bought your product and not many people complained...would you have to "fix " it?
But that isn't a good example in the sense that we're in competition with other countries. It isn't only for bragging rights...we don't want to be outsmarted. There was another thread in here about colonizing Mars. Is it worth it? What's there? Can we build a rocket to get us there? How much money would it cost? Etc. People are a resource and we need to make the most of that as a nation
From time to time I have to post this Ken Robinson Ted Talk. If you haven't watched it, I very highly recommend it.
Oh, I absolutely agree on that. My issue is why let those few dominate everything? Why waste everyone's time and energy on the disrupters? Kick 'em out.
Well, they can be 'kicked out' for limited periods of time. But the public schools are designed to serve the public. The entire public. Good or bad. And even the bad kids grow up...and without an education can become far more of a drain on society.
Well, they can be 'kicked out' for limited periods of time. But the public schools are designed to serve the public. The entire public. Good or bad. And even the bad kids grow up...and without an education can become far more of a drain on society.
I get that. But, here's the part I don't get. What about the other students in the class? Are they not part of the public too? Are they not entitled to an appropriate education? Because they are the ones being hurt by retaining the disrupters in the class.
Not all disruptors are bad kids. A lot are really to good to be in that class, so how is keeping them in that class helping them either?
For the bad kids? They need the appropriate education to set them straight. You're not helping them either by putting them back in that class.
I get that. But, here's the part I don't get. What about the other students in the class? Are they not part of the public too? Are they not entitled to an appropriate education? Because they are the ones being hurt by retaining the disrupters in the class.
Not all disruptors are bad kids. A lot are really to good to be in that class, so how is keeping them in that class helping them either?
For the bad kids? They need the appropriate education to set them straight. You're not helping them either by putting them back in that class.
I think you make it sound way more simpler than it is.
Over 3 decades in education I've know MANY kids who were "bad" in school who became quite successful. And I know a few who were very successful in school only to end up failures in adult life, and one who is currently in prison for murder.
But I always go back to my own childhood and the 3 "golden children" in my elementary school. They were perfect. They were going to be the great success stories. One, Debbie, did become a great success, starting her own successful business in an era when not many women did. Larry became a used car salesman. Nothing wrong with being a used car salesman, but nothing close to what his early potential had predicted. And Cathy became a prostitute.
But what is the real percentage who are like that in most schools? No doubt there's a percentage like that in all schools. And perhaps most in some schools. But not most parents in most schools.
It's a lot more than just a few, I know that. I was reading something about why we have such a teacher shortage and why teachers are quitting in droves. What I posted were the two biggest reasons.
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