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Old 04-13-2023, 06:36 AM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 11 hours ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,290 posts, read 16,438,172 times
Reputation: 29431

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
The theory, and it's correct as far as it goes, is that the zeroes will get the kid so far behind that nothing he does will get him a passing grade. That now becomes a "Then what?", meaning that that kid who's already failed the quarter by the third week is still going to be in the class and, in a lot of cases, wreaking havoc because he's got nothing to lose.

Yeah, you can send him to the office. Twice. After that the kid gets kicked back to the class with a note from the Administrator that your job is provide the student with "meaningful and engaging lessons which allow him to succeed".

My (former) system was toying with the 50% minimum before I retired. They adopted it after I pulled the pin but at least a kid who turned in nothing still got a zero. Hand in anything and he got the 50%.

I might note that the high school I taught at for my last 26 years was a middle/upper middle class school and we had kids that entire time who would do absolutely nothing. Early on they eventually were eased out but that changed with subsequent Principals and policies.
I'd say a kid who does that little to be failing by the third week, doesn't care enough to ever turn anything around. Probably been wreaking havoc all along. If the kid has a true psychological or mental issue, they need to be out of the class and into a proper setting to provide the help they need. If it's a case of "don't give a damn," then they need to be out of the school and out of the way of the other students who do care to learn.
That kind of a child should be classified for special education. I believe that nothing is accomplished just by putting books in front of him.
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Old 04-13-2023, 06:40 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,805 posts, read 59,740,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
That kind of a child should be classified for special education. I believe that nothing is accomplished just by putting books in front of him.
Refusal to do work or misbehavior doesn't mean Special Ed, there have to be underlying conditions for the classification determined by testing.
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Old 04-13-2023, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,012 posts, read 23,716,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Refusal to do work or misbehavior doesn't mean Special Ed, there have to be underlying conditions for the classification determined by testing.
Correct. This is another example of the 'general public' not understanding 'school stuff'.

Two of the biggest problems we had in my school regarding sped were:
Parents who demanded sped services for their children when it wasn't a sped issue (such as motivation)
Parents who refused sped services because they didn't want their child labeled (but often wanted sort of 'secret' sped services)
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Old 04-13-2023, 10:56 AM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 11 hours ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,290 posts, read 16,438,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Correct. This is another example of the 'general public' not understanding 'school stuff'.

Two of the biggest problems we had in my school regarding sped were:
Parents who demanded sped services for their children when it wasn't a sped issue (such as motivation)
Parents who refused sped services because they didn't want their child labeled (but often wanted sort of 'secret' sped services)
I have a son, now 25, who is on the autism spectrum.
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Old 04-13-2023, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,012 posts, read 23,716,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I have a son, now 25, who is on the autism spectrum.
And what is your point?
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Old 04-13-2023, 01:43 PM
 
5,551 posts, read 2,971,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
Teachers are quitting in droves due to chaotic classrooms, discipline, and post-Covid issues. We are on a verge of a serious teacher shortage. But lets fire some more techers for doing their jobs.
Well...except she didn't. Sounds like she knew the school policy, and chose to ignore it. That's on her.
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Old 04-13-2023, 02:20 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,895 posts, read 5,781,554 times
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I am not a fan of the "50% floor" grading policy, although I understand the logic behind it. However, one teacher can't go rogue on site-wide or district-wide grading policies. Grades need to be consistent from class to class to be meaningful.

If she was disregarding this policy, I wonder if she was also disregarding other policies.

It's one thing to use "personal discretion" and go off piste when health and safety are at risk, or even matters of serious ethics. But this wasn't that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
The theory, and it's correct as far as it goes, is that the zeroes will get the kid so far behind that nothing he does will get him a passing grade. That now becomes a "Then what?", meaning that that kid who's already failed the quarter by the third week is still going to be in the class and, in a lot of cases, wreaking havoc because he's got nothing to lose.
Yeah, it's an inherent weakness of the A-F percentage grading where anything below 60% is failing. I think it'd make more sense, both mathematically and for meaningful grading, to use the four point scale like GPA for course grades and for assignments.
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Old 04-13-2023, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,012 posts, read 23,716,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin View Post
Teachers are quitting in droves due to chaotic classrooms, discipline, and post-Covid issues. We are on a verge of a serious teacher shortage. But lets fire some more techers for doing their jobs.
One's job is doing what one's contract assigns in return for $$$. Teachers (or for that matter principals) are not their own independent bosses.
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Old 04-13-2023, 03:49 PM
 
4,343 posts, read 4,181,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
I am not a fan of the "50% floor" grading policy, although I understand the logic behind it. However, one teacher can't go rogue on site-wide or district-wide grading policies. Grades need to be consistent from class to class to be meaningful.

If she was disregarding this policy, I wonder if she was also disregarding other policies.

It's one thing to use "personal discretion" and go off piste when health and safety are at risk, or even matters of serious ethics. But this wasn't that.



Yeah, it's an inherent weakness of the A-F percentage grading where anything below 60% is failing. I think it'd make more sense, both mathematically and for meaningful grading, to use the four point scale like GPA for course grades and for assignments.

I used a performance scale of 5/4/3/2/1/0 for daily assignments, homework, quizzes and the like. I converted the scores to 100/90/80/70/60/0 to enter into the grading program. The only way a student got a 0 was if the assignment was not attempted. Any valid attempt got at least the lowest passing grade. I also offered unlimited time on tests and exams, if students were willing to come in before or after school. Very few took me up on the offer.



It was great when I had parent conferences, because parents would listen to my grading policies, with built-in extra credit (a 6/110 on the above scale), and unlimited retakes on oral tests (French class). Then they would turn to their child and ask "Why are you flunking this class?"


Of course, that all ended with the pandemic when I ended up assigning passing grades to students I had never even seen. I retired and no longer have to concern myself with grades.
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Old 04-13-2023, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,548 posts, read 2,187,884 times
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When I was in school, the minimum passing score was 70 and attempts were nice but they didn't count for anything. And this was in the rural South in the 1960's.

Kids today are supposed to be smarter than we were.
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